Bursaries

[Ponder55]

We're considering entering our DD for the entrance exam for St Helen & St Katharine School (Abingdon, Oxfordshire).

We absolutely wouldn't be able to afford the full fees (circa £26k incl VAT) and if she was offered a place, would only be able to take it up if offered a hefty bursary.

We're trying to think through whether it's worth her doing the entrance assessment, to potentially be really disappointed if she passes but can't go because of finances.

For context, our household income is approx £70k pre-tax, we have a mortgage (approx £200k left to pay off), one car worth about £3k, and about £3k in savings (plus around £7k debts).

I appreciate that there's absolutely no way to tell what level of bursary offer we might receive, if any - but does anyone with experience (either from a school or parental point of view) have any thoughts about whether we would qualify for consideration?

Thank you

On what grounds would you like to apply for a bursary. Is your daughter particularly talented in something?

Is your DD outstanding at something? Academic? Sport? Music?

It sounds like a high risk strategy TBH. Most bursaries are for not that much money. Sounds like you would need a significant bursary to make the numbers work

At the school we're looking at, bursaries are means tested discounts on fees - scholarships are for outstanding talent (eg. sport, music) and aren't a large financial award. DD is bright and we feel confident she'd pass the entrance assessment.

Most bursaries offer about 20% off the fees..

Which given VAT has just been added means you don't get to pay the VAT.

The ones which offer full are usually to households on minimum wages or even not working. I honestly can't see you being offered that much of a bursary at all. Sorry just my experience. Having said that, you're best off just being upfront to the office and asking, what's the likely bursary with an income of x .

Yes bursaries are means-tested but there would usually need to be a "reason" that the school would invest money in a particular child over another. Demand is high (and getting higher with VAT). The reality is schools can't offer a bursary to every child who applies for one, there is not an endless pot of money. Most schools seem to be offering 5x 10% rather than 1x 50% in order to help as many people as possible. Also re: VAT, most schools are prioritising keeping current students in education rather than making a financial commitment to new families.

Name changed for anonymity, but work in this area. The answer is - it depends. Not all schools link bursaries to particular areas of talent - some give bursaries based purely on means-testing plus passing the entrance test. As for your income level - it depends on where the school sets its levels. Does SHSK publish a bursary policy which gives any clue? If not, I'd phone the admissions/bursary department and just ask. They'll also look at other things. Eg you say you have a 200k mortgage, but how much equity do you have? If a million, you can probably forget it! If very little, then you're not going to get a full bursary on that income level, but you might get something.

Thank you, that's really helpful. House value circa £420k, nowhere close to £1million.
SHSK don't seem to publish any guidance re. income thresholds etc, but I'll try to ask them directly.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

I’ve known people on a higher salary than yours get a full bursary. A lot of misinformation spread on mumsnet! There is also no requirement for your child to be particularly talented in any area - that would be scholarship territory, not relevant to bursaries. It may be that skills/ talents come to the fore in a tiebreaker between your child and another bursary applicant.

Talking about bursaries triggers many, eg ‘why would you apply for bursary?’ as seen above. Why not? I mean, one could argue why should any child get a bursary when free schooling is universally available! But you never know until you give it a try. They look at fixed outgoings/ disposable income, as well as assets/ equity. It’s also relevant if you have other minor children.

No problem. My main piece of advice is, never be scared to ask. Hope they're helpful (I imagine they will be - it's a really nice school.) And good luck!

@WomensRightsRenegade Thank you for your reply. I feel that I'd love DD to have the opportunity, and think she'd thrive at SHSK. I'm keen to give it a try, just will need to do some very careful expectation management with DD.

I've got a wonderful impression of the school after having visited twice (once by myself, once with DD). Fingers crossed!

Burseries are given on financial need and are nothing to do with a special talent. If your child meets the entry requirements and you can’t afford the full fees then you will potentially be given a bursery.

scholarships are given for a special talent and often have 10/20% of full fees.

My children all attended private school on burseries. None were particularly academic.

It's not quite as clear cut as that. Some schools have bursary funds that are only available to scholars who also need help with fees (a kind of 'scholarship plus' model). Some don't specifically link bursaries to scholarships, but in reality they're looking for kids who also bring that little bit 'extra' when they're offering bursaries (ie those who do particularly well in the entrance tests or have a very strong extra curricular talent). Some schools go the other way and make allowances for the fact that low income students are less likely to have had loads of tutoring or lots of sporting/music opportunities etc - so in those schools, successful bursary candidates may have in fact done a little less well in the tests than other candidates. It really depends, which is why I'd suggest talking to the school.

Abingdon is about to take girls and has a much bigger pot than SHSK. It might be worth trying for both and see where it gets you. How much of a bursary would you need to make it work? I think it's good to know that much going in.

For talented kids are scholarships
Do not mistake it with bursaries that are solely income dependent

Dear op, there are parents on Universal Credit who put their talented kids through 11+ and are applying for scholarships... Having in mind an absolutely different peivate school l know a boy who 10 years ago got a 100 perc tution fees covered as his parents were a family of 5 kids and refugees escaped regime of taliban. Also Ukrainian girl from the neighborhood got bursary. Workers at the school do get a bursaries for their kids. A boy who got with flying marks to Wilson school as well as to local private was offered bursary just to keep him at school as he will be the one driving the marketing of the school when he gets into Oxbridge....

Don't be disappointed but there are many many families like your own and if you get 10-20 perc consider it a miracle at any private school

SHSK is a wonderful school. I’d just ask them if I were you.

Kids like that are vastly in the minority re bursaries. It’s a bit of a myth. Most bursary kids are actually from less well off middle class families. Despite what full fee-paying parents would like to believe.

Schools would have to do a huge amount of outreach to find and entice the kind of children you describe.

@WomensRightsRenegade I can only speak about people I know and local private schools- London South West. I cannot say anything about UK wide practices. The bursaries were not given to families on £70kpa. One of the schools visits homes and asseses also the possessions etc. This year I know a single mum nurse who got 50 perc bursary and that is a salary of thirty something per year. The family of 5 kids and similar income, renting did not get bursary. My friend whose family income is around 90 k, mortgage, two kids also didn't get a bursary. I know only one person this year. Ah and the schools I have in mind don't need to entice anybody. These are superselective schools. Plenty of talented candidates.

Sorry this isn't strictly true information for all schools.

Why don’t you contact the school and ask them?

In my experience schools will try to make it possible for children they want to attend the school.
Good luck.

All of the people we know that receive or will receive bursaries for senior schools are two income middle class families.

That’s only the people you know though. People on bursaries aren’t meant to discuss them, so it’s all very private.

I know people on more than 70k getting full bursaries. It is related to disposable income and fixed outgoings, not just income. This is in super selective schools - schools with huge endowment funds. Maybe those children are also highly desired by the school, and maybe it’s because they know these kids will alternatively have gone to Tiffin or similar.

I mean if you think about it, offering a single mother nurse a 50pc bursary is essentially constructive dismissal. Unless she has no mortgage or rent to pay, and/ or a large inheritance etc the school will
know there’s simply no way she can pay the other 50pc of the fees. So it’s a ‘no’. Just a much crueller way of doing it.

Yes. It’s a real myth that bursaries are all or mostly taken up by ‘council house kids’ that have been plucked from extreme poverty. It’s a very self-selecting group of families that would even be aware of the existence of bursaries, let alone how to apply for them. You’d have to be confident your child would fit in well at a school of mostly very well-off kids too.

It's also the case that the potential pool of bursary applicants can vary hugely. In a city (eg London) you might have quite a dense concentration of schools which offer bursaries, and a wide range of housing types within a reasonable commuting distance (including flats, social housing etc), and the awareness of bursaries among lower income families (and subsequent applicant numbers) might be quite high. In a less central location, that's much less true. Schools in less urban areas (particularly affluent rural areas) can find it more difficult to find candidates who tick all the boxes of being financially eligible, academically high-achieving (if the school is academically selective), and also aware of bursary opportunities and motivated to apply.