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Secondary education

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London grammar and private senior school entry 2025

1000 replies

CruCru · 28/08/2024 15:57

Hi all

It doesn’t look as though one of these threads has been set up yet so I thought I’d do it.

I have a daughter going into year 6 and a son going into year 8 next month - both will be moving to senior school in 2025.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SamPoodle123 · 23/01/2025 16:51

Suress · 23/01/2025 16:49

I’m not sure if this is a marketing ploy or if the website isn’t updated if the schools say that they don’t want tutored kids. The competition has gotten so fierce that the entry requirements are constantly increasing, making it almost impossible for most kids to compete without extra help, whether it’s at home or from an external tutor. Also, some of the questions seem to be from year 7 and 8, not year 5, as mentioned by the schools.

Yea, I do not get it and I have heard schools say you don't need to prep for 11+. I feel bad for any parents that actually believe them!! Every dc needs to prep, unless there is the rare dc who is a genius (but even then, they have learned the concept somehow, probably studying on their own). Of course, there are different levels of prep and some need more than others. I don't know why schools pretend otherwise.

meuntilmarch2025 · 23/01/2025 17:04

They might be looking for outliers from the interview, not necessarily do a direct selection from it - some exceptionally good or bad to move kids up or down the list. Some thought provoking questions to see how children react. How logically they could derive an answer. But I don't think it's a big differentiator, as those questions still were suitable for children at that age, most would do reasonably well in the interview. Also in my DD's case they asked about DD's interests in sports or music and sought how good she is at them, so potentially looking for what the child can bring to the school. Which schools they've applied to, to perhaps gauge possibility of acceptance if a place was offered. DD did some interview practice but in the end I don't think she really needed much help, just a few pointers or casual brainstorming on ideas would have been enough.

mutbee · 24/01/2025 09:42

During an open morning last year, I overheard one parent asking about interviews. The teacher said, very honestly, that at that school they don't put any weight on interviews, it's purely to look at behaviour. They clearly wanted a certain type of child and weren't going to tolerate "out of the box" behaviour. I doubt that many children would fall in that category frankly, but it shows (at that school), they purely offer based on exam results.

NHPDH · 24/01/2025 10:05

St Paul’s Boys interview emails are going out. Good luck to anyone waiting!

SamPoodle123 · 24/01/2025 12:22

mutbee · 24/01/2025 09:42

During an open morning last year, I overheard one parent asking about interviews. The teacher said, very honestly, that at that school they don't put any weight on interviews, it's purely to look at behaviour. They clearly wanted a certain type of child and weren't going to tolerate "out of the box" behaviour. I doubt that many children would fall in that category frankly, but it shows (at that school), they purely offer based on exam results.

I have a feeling it is like this at most schools, exam results matter the most and like you said, any behaviours they might not want at the school. I wonder why they invite so many more for interview.

JoeDoe · 24/01/2025 14:18

Schools always have difficulty getting the offer/acceptance ratio correct. They know how many places they want to fill but they do not know how many offers they need to make to get there. Their best guess is to go by experience, looking at previous years. This means a combination of over-offering and a waiting list as an insurance. This means in turn that there will be some candidates (5? 10? 15? nobody knows) that will be interviewed who are at the very bottom of the waiting list and have no realistic chance. So I don't think what some parents say is plausible, namely that a candidate might be at the bottom of the academic exams (barely making the cut), but improve their ranking through the interview. I think that's unlikely. These candidates are not interviewed to be tested, but because of this reason: if the worst were to happen and many more families than previous years turn down places, then the school might have to reach very deep in the waiting list. For it would look bad on a school to make an offer to a candidate that it had rejected in writing a few weeks ago. So the waiting list must always be longer than what the school expects, which in turn means some candidates had no realistic chance when they were interviewed to begin with (that's how insurance works).

Of course, the above analysis only applies to schools where the second round is just interview. But it explains two aspects of the admissions process in some of these schools: (a) some interviews are not at all academic (b) some candidates on the waiting lists never get offered a place.

Now, I think all this is extra-complicated this year, with the uncertainty caused by the introduction of VAT. There is a danger that more parents will choose state schools in the end compared to previous years, having applied to indies as an insurance. Nobody knows, of course. But it seems to me that, if I was running admissions there would be two choices:

A) Keep the number of offers fixed (which is always more than the places) and call back more students than previous years so that (if the worst were to happen) there is a longer waiting list to go to. But for the waiting list to be longer, a school would have to interview more pupils. And some of those in that list, if acceptance rates drop, will have a realistic chance whereas they wouldn't last year.

B) Alternatively, a school can just make more offers to being with, anticipating some drop in acceptances, and keep the number of interviewees fixed. This second approach is more risky, however, as it could result in more acceptances, forcing the school to create another form at short notice.

Given that (A) is more risk-averse than (B) I would venture a guess that schools are interviewing more pupils this year. Or they might try to combine them (slightly more interviewees, slightly more offers than previous years). Of course, there is option (C), to do exactly as a school has done in previous years. But I doubt schools, even the very top ones, will be thinking in that way. Institutions usually plan for the worse.

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 08:12

Does atom know something I don't!?

Weird statement in their request for a rating:

"We're so pleased to hear that your child was offered a place at their top-choice school.

If you have a moment spare, we’d really appreciate it if you leave us a review on Trustpilot."

CruCru · 25/01/2025 08:19

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 08:12

Does atom know something I don't!?

Weird statement in their request for a rating:

"We're so pleased to hear that your child was offered a place at their top-choice school.

If you have a moment spare, we’d really appreciate it if you leave us a review on Trustpilot."

Did you cancel it? Maybe this is the bonus for not cancelling it (joking!).

OP posts:
CruCru · 25/01/2025 08:20

Two weeks six days to go.

OP posts:
TidyLion · 25/01/2025 08:21

Good luck to everyone for Alleyn’s today!

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 08:35

@CruCru of course I did / immediately after the last test. 😂

Hatcher · 25/01/2025 09:02

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 08:12

Does atom know something I don't!?

Weird statement in their request for a rating:

"We're so pleased to hear that your child was offered a place at their top-choice school.

If you have a moment spare, we’d really appreciate it if you leave us a review on Trustpilot."

It’s happening. AI robots are rising, algorithms know things before they happen. It makes sense as Atom sets most of the 11+ tests. Of course it knows. You heard it here first. 🤣

Heidi245 · 25/01/2025 13:20

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 08:12

Does atom know something I don't!?

Weird statement in their request for a rating:

"We're so pleased to hear that your child was offered a place at their top-choice school.

If you have a moment spare, we’d really appreciate it if you leave us a review on Trustpilot."

I got an apology from them after the terrible email they sent me when I cancelled (see my previous posts). Perhaps they’ve now decided to change marketing tactics to the opposite i.e. ‘buttering up’ parents as opposed blatantly preying on their insecurities???

CruCru · 25/01/2025 14:24

Hatcher · 25/01/2025 09:02

It’s happening. AI robots are rising, algorithms know things before they happen. It makes sense as Atom sets most of the 11+ tests. Of course it knows. You heard it here first. 🤣

I have been pondering this. It would be really interesting to do some statistical analysis based on which schools Atom would predict and which a child actually gets (assuming that the parents are okay with updating Atom to say which schools gave a yes, a no or a waitlist place).

OP posts:
Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 15:29

@TidyLion pretty enjoyable this morning. For once felt questions were pretty decent to get sense of who they are / how they think. Well done to whoever come up with those questions! Hope went well for all DC!

TidyLion · 25/01/2025 16:34

Lana1985 · 25/01/2025 15:29

@TidyLion pretty enjoyable this morning. For once felt questions were pretty decent to get sense of who they are / how they think. Well done to whoever come up with those questions! Hope went well for all DC!

Completely agree. Really interesting questions. DD enjoyed the activity too. We are a very sporty family and I loved the energy and community feel of the school this morning with all the fixtures going on. 🤞🤞🤞

Hatcher · 25/01/2025 17:35

CruCru · 25/01/2025 14:24

I have been pondering this. It would be really interesting to do some statistical analysis based on which schools Atom would predict and which a child actually gets (assuming that the parents are okay with updating Atom to say which schools gave a yes, a no or a waitlist place).

Yes, joking aside, that would be very useful to know but most parents cancel before they know the results and few bother telling Atom afterwards, so any analysis would be on a small sample. But it is really extraordinary how quickly Atom took off in the space of a few years - they must have a very rich dataset by now and the rankings they use (the comparison to the average applicant to a school) should be accurate. They have also clearly capitalised on the fact that most schools want computer-based, quick & efficient exams (less resources spent, less marking etc), and the adaptive technology offers precisely that. I personally think that computer-based is not the best method for kids to learn/practice, and there is some research suggesting so. In any case, it would be good to see more competitors to Atom, they seem to be a near-monopoly.

SamPoodle123 · 25/01/2025 17:39

TidyLion · 25/01/2025 16:34

Completely agree. Really interesting questions. DD enjoyed the activity too. We are a very sporty family and I loved the energy and community feel of the school this morning with all the fixtures going on. 🤞🤞🤞

Edited

Curious if you have a preference between Alleyns and Emanuel? We did not apply for Alleyns...but thinking between Emanuel and Latymer.

GildedRage · 25/01/2025 18:00

our grand daughter's school had set up atom platforms for the students and had atom "homework" regularly in years 5 and up till exam time year 6.

the school she attends publishes the schools to which the children apply, accepted offers and scholarships.
so maybe part of the information comes from the prep schools who use atom.

TidyLion · 25/01/2025 18:00

@SamPoodle123 No! Love them both. If we are lucky enough to get two offers it’ll be very tough to decide. Latymer was just a bit too far for us otherwise would have applied. Looks great!

Hatty999 · 25/01/2025 21:40

I think they try and gauge - so for my child, they asked because they knew we had a very good school nearer than them AND we had applied to that one too. They wanted their offer obviously to beat the nearer one to get our acceptance. We were a scholarship too though so maybe they ask more directly with them so they compete with the other schools.

11plus2nd · 25/01/2025 23:48

I had a created an account with Atom however didnt find it easy to navigate so cancelled it the next day. We are both doing long hours so couldnt leave our daughter online on her own. So only group tutor, once a week and it was plenty.

Twinklestoes198 · 26/01/2025 08:02

Hope everyone DC enjoyed Alleyn’s yesterday! There definitely was a buzz around the school with the sports fixtures going on.

Out of interest I see they have an academic scholarship workshop on Friday. Have kids already been invited to that as I know the sport, drama art dt scholarship emails have gone out already.

near the end now! Have only one interview left and then the long wait till 14th. Good luck everyone!

TidyLion · 26/01/2025 09:17

Twinklestoes198 · 26/01/2025 08:02

Hope everyone DC enjoyed Alleyn’s yesterday! There definitely was a buzz around the school with the sports fixtures going on.

Out of interest I see they have an academic scholarship workshop on Friday. Have kids already been invited to that as I know the sport, drama art dt scholarship emails have gone out already.

near the end now! Have only one interview left and then the long wait till 14th. Good luck everyone!

I have come to the conclusion that the academic scholarships are a dark art..! I’m assuming that they’ve gone out. DD is very strong academically but I guess there were children who didn’t drop a point whereas she said one of the maths questions was quite tricky.

edited to say that I nearly asked yesterday but didn’t want to come across as the kind of parent who just assumes that their kid must be considered!!

SupermarketMum · 26/01/2025 11:03

My son really enjoyed alleyn’s yesterday, we haven’t heard from the academic scholarship so I’m assuming he’s not been invited… if he does get an offer it will be a very tough choice as it’s his favourite school but it’s not that close to us… and I’ve just seen the fees inc VAT are now upwards of £10k!

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