How hard is Music GCSE if grade 4 piano?

[Mabs49]

Just that really. DS can take German or Music at GCSE. He’s not sure which one to pick. I feel like Music may be easier as he can already read music. Is it a hard GCSE? What sort of things do you have to do?

Do you have to perform a piece?

Do aurals, like for ABRSM?

Thanks for any advice.

@Littlemissnikib with all due respect, O levels were last taken in 1987 or 88 so your information is seriously out of date. I took O level Music back in the day and not that much was the same as the GCSE I taught this year. In my/your day, we had to know harmony which is now covered at A level. There was an aural part of the exam. Performance was one piece which was specified by the exam board depending on the instrument you played. I had to play a tedious piece on the cello - the piano stuff was nicer. We had to learn about 6 pieces of music. Now Edexcel has 8 set works. Eduqas has 2.

We didn't have to compose anything from scratch. Instead we had to add chords, correctly voiced if I remember rightly. We had to be able to add a baseline or descant. Everything was written on manuscript.

I cannot see how it helps the OP to discuss a qualification which hasn't existed for decades, especially since the GCSE itself has changed many times since its inception.

@clary thank you very much. One of the 9s really pleased me because she wanted to drop it in y10. She gave me a big hug last Thursday. However, perversely I am really pleased for the kid who got a 4. In the strange world that is MN, 4s are derided. That was one of the most hard-earned things I have supported and the student was delighted that they passed.

@Tiredalwaystired good luck to your DD - she should be fine.

If it's any consolation, I don't have a single grade on my main instrument, yet I earn money playing and teaching it. According to some here, I shouldn't be taking GCSE... However, I do have a Music degree from a RG university, although RG didn't exist then.

I think people get a bit hung up on grades, when they're really just a means to describe a general standard.
As I understand it, to get good marks on the performance part of GCSE you're going to need to be able to play at a similar standard to someone doing grade 4-5. Whether you've actually done those specific exams or not doesn't matter in the slightest.
It is the same in dance. It's quite common for dance college course syllabi to say something like "applicants should be at a minimum of Intermediate standard." Lots of people interpret that as meaning you must have passed your Intermediate exam, which isn't the case at all. It's just a useful shorthand to give an idea of what kind of level is expected.
It does seem to be a particularly British thing to focus on grades. I don't know about music, but in dance lots of countries don't have the same culture of doing exams but still produce plenty of wonderful dancers. They wouldn't get turned down for roles because they haven't passed any exams!

What sort of things do you have to do?
Do you have to perform a piece?
Do aurals, like for ABRSM?
Thanks for any advice.

Honestly, my advice is that your Y9 child should be able to answer those questions for you himself. I would really encourage you to encourage him to speak to his music teacher, attend options evening, probably read an info pack on the school website… he should take censorship of this.

Ah @Malbecfan the students who work really hard to get their grade are the ones you are most pleased about. Same for me with students who really had to fight for their grade C or grade 4.

Thank you that's really helpful as you have knowledge of both sides!

What we've noticed is that DD who has just done GCSEs did French and Spanish and has come out with a 9 and an 8 respectively but that the orals and learning generally but particularly the orals took a HUGE amount of work just before the exams started and we think might have cost her 9s in Biology and Physics she got 8s instead because she was so focused on orals and the need to keep mugging up for these oral tests and memorising to some extent some of the material so she wouldn't pause/hesitate for too long in the exams. She's a slow processor anyway and it would have been lethal if she hadn't spent probably as much time as she did.

Thinking ahead for DS who is starting year 8 now I'm wary of him doing two languages having seen the amount of time DD put in for hers and how much time she spent on them.

I'm thinking to send him on some language courses maybe over each summer until end of year 10, so German for 2 weeks maybe next summer (end of year 8), then French the summer after (we have some family there that might take him for a few weeks end of year 9) and then back to Germany again for another 2 weeks maybe (year 10) and maybe even back to relatives that summer too in France. He's going to hate me. Would this help? I'm hoping to buy some time by getting the oral side better earlier on. I found my time in Germany myself so valuable for boosting my grades way back when years ago. Even just a week back then pushed me from an B to an A.

I'm just trying to find a way to help him possibly do two languages. He's not that fond of the piano these days. Did a lot of up to Year 6 but honestly it was like getting blood out of a stone at times. He loves it but hates it. He's learning the moonlight sonata now of his own choice. Sort of come back to it but not sure his heart is in it. His performances are OK with grades. he got a merit once at Grade 2 but mostly he just does what needs to be done and gets on so he can go to the next grade. I think he's probably more interested in German than music but either way, either one, it's a lot of work for DS and he will really need to work at either if he's to get a high grade. And it won't come easily for him, either one. I'm not sure which path is the path of least resistance. He won't be keen for 4 weeks of language courses either in Germany - or maybe he will once he's grown up a bit by end of Year 8. He's a sensitive soul. And in the end I might cave in and not send him anyway but then it's leaving everything to the last minute like with DD and that was possibly an error on my part. I should have sent her off on a language course earlier on.

Urgh. Kids. Grades. Choices. I'm so over all of this. Sorry for being a pushy mum. No doubt this post will get flamed for being pushy. Just want to help them. I hate how competitive life is but it seems like we have no choice but the play the game.

Hang on, he’s only just starting Y8 now?
Why the angst about GCSE options then?
Most schools, he’d be 18 months away from choosing. I know some choose at end of Y8, but even that’s 6+ months away.

You don’t actually sound like a pushy mum, so much as a really anxious one.

You talk about possible errors on your part re your daughter, but getting 8s in Bio and Physics and considering that an error (cos she put too much time into 9/8 in 2 languages) is… well, kindly, nuts!

Why are you angsting over how to support your son to do 2 languages when it sounds like he’s shown no interest? You said he won’t be keen. I’m a pushy parent - happy to say so. But it’s not driven by the anxiety you seem to be showing, and I am pushy only after my children have made their own decisions on subjects. I have one who dropped languages altogether which broke my heart 😉 but she’s on for cracking grades in her choices and really importantly, LOVING them.

Getting an 8 rather than a potential 9 is hardly a big deal in any scheme of things. You seem to see this as a failing, whereas if DD had spent less time on her oral she might have done less well in her MFL. Trust your child :)

Unless your DS really wants to go on language courses abroad, I worry that your plan is only going to alienate him.
I'd also suggest that whilst spending time in another country is, of course, beneficial to help with speaking that language, it's not necessarily going to help with an MFL GCSE oral, as they have very specific requirements (My colleague's son, who is bilingual, has jjust got a 7 at GCSE).

I would heavily suggest letting your child organise himself rather than micromanaging. This will serve him better in the long run.

Hey @Mabs49 yes you do sound a bit anxious tbh.

Firstly, like others, I assumed your Ds was going into year 9 or maybe even year 10 (bit late to choose GCSEs but...) - unless his school chooses in year 8 you all have time.

A lot of people posting here clearly loved (or their DC loved) music GCSE - which is great, of course. It sounds as tho that might not be your DS tho. He needs to choose what to study tbh. I infer he will be taking French anyway - so does he want to do music or German, or is it that you think they will be easier than other options? The best option (once the basics are covered, by the compulsories) is what a student will enjoy.

I terms of language, yes, time spent in the countries will improve his language skills, for sure. But will he enjoy it? If not then you risk making the whole thing a burden. Would he maybe prefer to take DT (or CS, or RS, or drama, or art)? That would be fine.

I worry a bit about your analysis of why your DD dipped from 9s to 8s in some of her GCSEs. An 8 is an amazing grade. Eight years ago that would have been an A-star and everyone would have been delighted. Even Oxford uni does not discriminate between 8s and 9s at GCSE. Her extra work on her speaking exam is not what "cost" her those 9s - nothing cost her them, she achieved amazing 8s.

I know that students do panic about the speaking and of course I see why. And I know that for some, that will translate to a lot of learning of answers. That's OK if it helps them but in the end the speaking is only 25% of the exam overall. Your DD did so well to gain a 9 and an 8.

As a side note - @redskydarknight interesting that a colleague's DS got a 7 but is bilingual. Is he actually bilingual? I ask bc I have had students sold to me as "fluent in German" and it is not always the case. If he is native speaker standard, then he must have been poorly coached for the exam, unfortunately. Yes you need to do what you need to do - more so for A level but even for GCSE you need to (for example) develop your answers in a way that might seem odd to a native speaker. I have ranted on about this on MN before (I do speaking tests as an external examiner) - native speakers often think they can rock up to the A level exam and just wing it. I'm a bit shocked he was so badly let down at GCSE tho - did he have lessons in the subject or was it externally sat? Did he have any kind of tuition? Even a couple of hours would probably have been enough to secure a grade 8/9 at GSCE.

Dd was told grade 6 or equivalent. She was grade 8

He hates PE, DT and art. He’s not sporty nor is he arty or creative in a visual way. Struggled with handwriting. Finds holding a saw cumbersome and awkward. DT is fiddly. He’s not dexterous.

He’s ok with drama but bit not especially keen. Finds it a bit boring. So the only contender was music as a slightly softer option.

But in the end it looks like it’ll be German. And that’s fine. Alles gut! 😆

It’s just two languages, three sciences, two English and maths plus history or geography is going to be a ton of work.

it was a struggle for DD who is a keen bean.

I need to help him. Yes I am anxious because of that. The high workload and the possibility that it’ll be overwhelming for him.

Yes @clary the oral responses to questions were quite mad at times for languages.

To score high marks everything you had to squeeze in seemed over the top.

Im really not sure about the usefulness of some of it to be honest.

The thing is @Mabs49, creative/practical subjects are only a "lighter" GCSE if you enjoy them. I actually think they're worse than some other subjects if you are doing something that you don't have a natural interest or aptitude for as there tends to be quite a lot of coursework, the need to work collaboratively with other people sometimes outside of school hours and so on. So though that does look like quite a heavy workload, if he is more interested in German than music it might actually turn out to be less onerous than doing a subject which on the surface looks like an easier option but turns put to be a real chore.
Sounds like he has plenty of time before he has to make a final choice though so don't worry too much yet.

I believe that the wrote learning approach for GCSE French is poor. The idea that student's learn almost parrot fashion answers and real these off does not develop language ability long term. In my child's school many gained 8 and 9 grades but it was due to this type of approach.

I agree with what you say - but in fact the new(ish) GCSE does not encourage rote learning. Yes, many students will practice at least the first topic as a Q&A - but the spec specifically discourages learned answers. Much better to learn phrases and expressions that will be useful than reel off paragraphs of pre-learned text. The marker will spot it. The structure of the speaking exam means it's much harder to pre-learn now anyway - photo and role play are only seen in the prep time and that's when you discover your second general topic as well.

@clary
As a side note - interesting that a colleague's DS got a 7 but is bilingual. Is he actually bilingual?

I believe so. His mother is French; his father is English (but a fluent French speaker) and they speak French at home. They also spend half of their summers (and some other holidays) in France. My colleague was quite bemused by the 7 (his older sister did get a 9). You may be right about poor preparation though - I don't know how much support he had in the lead up.

I'm guessing by your reaction that this isn't common? There were a couple of native speakers in DD's year that got Bs in the language at A Level, though maybe that's more usual than at GCSE?

So the only contender was music as a slightly softer option.

Softer option? 🙄
My now Y11 daughter got 9s in Y10 mocks for all her subjects. Guess which one took the most time last year, by hours? Art.
She got a 9 in Maths with zero revision. Entire weekends - 8 hours a day, 2 days - were spent on Art.
Soft, my arse, frankly!

But in the end it looks like it’ll be German. And that’s fine. Alles gut! 😆

So in the course of 12 hours of this thread, your just starting Y8 child has made his Music vs German GCSE option choice? 🤨

Better get that summer school booked for your emotional needs then 🤷🏻‍♀️

Exactly this. My DD has just got 8 in her gcse music this year. Her teacher was clear that it’s better to pick a grade 3 piece and do it really well for your performance than pick a harder piece and make mistakes. So that’s what she did- she’s currently working towards grade 5 Abrsm. She found the composition the hardest but made up marks in the written paper which IMO is super hard and definitely harder than grade 5 theory. You have to be be able to recognise different types of scales and chord progressions and know all the music terminology. However, DD is super academic so with some cramming this was her strength. I’d say music was one of her hardest GCSEs and she was very happy to get the result she did.

I have a DS who has just chosen GCSE music option. He hasn't actually taken any grades - though he was scheduled to take G2 during covid times before his (online) teacher quit. Since then he has just tinkered around and practices what takes his fancy. His sight reading is actually pretty ok, theory less so. We had a word with the music teacher, who was very enthusiastic (I can see why music was DS favourite lesson). I think the teacher is just happy to see anyone being interested in music! In fact I know he has taken on another kid who DJs as his 'instrument'. I think the process will be an enlightening experience for them with such an enthusiastic mentor.

He will take piano lessons with this teacher too (paid seperately) and I expect in the 2 years will get to the expected G5 level - even if he never takes any official grade exams.

DD on the other hand took German. Unfortunately the GCSE knocked her love of languages and she was less than enthusiastic by the end of the course, after a series of teachers. She got a 6 in the end for what looked like to me fairly minimal effort. She still does German Duolingo to this day though to keep her streak - so who knows?

I have become more relaxed with my dc and their GCSE choices as time goes by. For my eldest we spent ages discussing pros and cons of her final choice (at her instigation) but later found out that even the more competitive courses at universities generally are only interested in the top six to eight grades. Many are only interested in Maths and English. The GCSE grade is just a step to get into the A level course.

For my youngest he has gone for the subject he enjoys more, even though he might get higher grades on other subjects. None of the final options is he planning to study for A level and all his teachers were supportive of him taking their subject. He is lucky in that he enjoys and does well in the compulsory subjects and his options will be a chance for him to enjoy the subject while hopefully getting ok grades.

If your ds is already reluctant to practice then he might not enjoy the coursework aspect and it is miserable for everyone trying to persuade a reluctant teen to study when they are not enthused.

Yes tbh @redskydarknight I would say a 7 for a bilingual student is unusual. Would expect a 9 at GCSE really. He might be a weaker candidate so that could be a factor. If he did French at school I would expect him to have had exam prep?

To explain what I mean – if I asked you where you went on holiday this year, you might say, in a normal conversation, “France, we had a good time.” But to access the top marks in the GCSE speaking exam you need to say, “I went to France with my family; we had a great time and the weather was excellent. I loved swimming in the sea as it was so relaxing. My brother played football on the beach every day. Next year we will go to Italy and visit Rome. It will be really expensive and hot but we hope to enjoy it.”

So maybe he didn’t know he needed to extend his answers and came a cropper there. Or perhaps he failed to use a range of tenses in his written work. I am struggling to see how a bilingual student could drop many marks in the reading, translation and listening elements tbh. If he got a grade 7 (AQA) he will have dropped at least 70 marks out of 240 (four papers) which is quite a lot. It’s perfectly possible to achieve full marks on MFL GCSE (I have deffo examined candidates who would have gained a perfect score for speaking).

For A level is it less unusual IME. A good number of native speakers seem to think they can rock up and wing the speaking exam – not so much. If I were taking a similar speaking exam in English I wouldn’t be able to speak at length, adducing examples, stats and facts, about, say, immigration, or the fall of the Berlin wall, or young people and politics in Germany, or francophone music (or the English equivalent) just off the top of my head. That’s what you need for A level so it does require some work for everyone tho obvs great language skills give you a head start.

Both of mine got 9s although one was a teacher assessed COVID grade. One was diploma level but told to do a grade 5 piece as once you get to that level a more difficult piece gets you no extra marks and is likely to lead to a downgrade if it isn't quite perfect. So you can do well in performance playing a Grade 4 piece ver well and not so well playing a grade 8 piece badly... IMO the big issue is theory rather than practical as it underwrites the written paper and also has a big bearing on composition. Both of mine had Grade 5 theory before they started the course. If your son doesn't have it get him to work through some ABRSM theory books with his music teacher. Also (although to the old syllabus) this is a good resource https://www.amazon.co.uk/Take-Five-Pass-First-Time/dp/0953500705

In our school, they choose options just after Christmas in y8 so I have some sympathy for the OP wanting to think ahead. However, options do change from year to year - in DD1's year (2014) she took 12 GCSEs but DD2 in 2016 was only allowed to take 11. Both had lots of compulsory subjects and were then asked to rank 4 options from which they would get 2. They started from both ends of the list: I REALLY want this subject, I LOATHE that one and the lists pretty much sorted themselves out. Needless to say, I disagreed with one option for each but it was their choice. However, over the intervening years, both have admitted that they wish they had followed my advice.

In terms of bilingual students, @clary makes excellent points. My nephew was born and educated in Spain but speaks (terrible) English at home. They exclusively watch British TV and my BiL can't even speak Spanish properly but DN did not achieve a top grade in English, despite it being his 1st language, probably because he speaks with a strong northern accent and uses lots of colloquialisms which a non-native British/NW English person might not understand.

Finally, just to reiterate, sight-reading is not included in GCSE Music. The listening exam is different from Grade 5 Theory, but most of my students find Theory more of a challenge. I do teach them side-by-side in y9/10.