Moving schools for alevel?

[36and3]

What are your thoughts about moving school for alevel? Dd is only going into y10 but already booked into a few sixth form open days for this term. For context, she's been at her (independent coed) school since y2 and is very happy, getting brilliant class results. Summer exams were all 8/9.

Positives:
Fresh change after so long in one place
One school in particular we're most keen on have better exam results
Potentially stopping school fees and therefore more university fund for her

Negatives:
Short course so don't want her worrying about making friends / getting to know teachers

We are not interested in colleges, only school sixth forms. She wants to do stem alevels.

Anyone else in same boat?

Does she want to stay put? Eldest dc was adamant that he was going elsewhere for A levels and couldn't get out fast enough! Youngest dc's school only goes up to year 11 so they'll have to move anyway.

I'd say you need to check reputation on the subjects she wants to do as well as overall results.

Why not college, out of interest?

Let her go to the open days and think about it from there. Some kids are ready for a different environment at 16 and some not.

@MassiveOvaryaction She's been in small classes/ small cohort, it's all she's known. She needs top grades for alevel for the course she wants to do (medicine) so can't afford for her to flounder in a large college setting. Shes said herself she will struggle with big classes, smaller teacher/pupil ratio etc so I support her reasoning.

Mine moved, out of his own volition, for A levels. His reasons were mostly academic based, he was convinced the STEM teachers of his then current school were not as good as the one he decided to go to.

He may have had a point but we will never known as he never took stem subjects at the original school anyway. He is very academic so he ended in a top ten university anyway.

The big downsides:

1. His new teachers didn’t know him, he is one of those kids that are goofy in the classroom but then end up with very high grades so he was predicted much lower grades than he would have if he had stayed in the previous school, which would have prevented him from applying to Oxbridge if he had wanted to.

2. pupils spend less time at school in A levels so many kids go home between classes or do other things so it is more difficult to make good friends. He is very sociable so he managed to make friends while still do a lot of stuff with his friends from the previous school, but living far from the new school he got bored of the long gaps between classes and I don’t think he remained a bit of a new comer to friend groups (the lockdowns didn’t help either).

He doesn’t regret the change but he doesn’t think it made a big difference either on the academic side. It did on the social side. I am sure that if I had forced this change on him myself, he would probably be resentful with me now.

Don’t underestimate the impact of :
Making new friends and getting used to a new environment
As pp said above - track record for predicted grades

A friend of mines DD swapped from one superselective grammar to another for sixth form and it turned out the school only gave top predicted grades to students that had been in the lower school

Sixth form is a very, very short period of time - 18 months.

Teaching is critical - check out staff turnover for the subjects your DC is interested in at each school

I think it depends on the person. One of mine has really thrived in a new environment. It is also worth considering that if she will struggle with large classes then they will be large at university, plus smaller group work. Maybe it is worth getting used to that now while she has you around to help manage any additional anxiety rather than experiencing that for the first time at university when she has less accessible parental support. A level classes tend to be smaller than lower down the school even in a state school so it might not be as different as you think. Worth looking and see what she thinks.

What does your DD think?

I agree with your rationale about it being positive to change after so long in one place. I think your DD is going to struggle with the rigours of university if she's been in one small bubble since was 6 (does she do extra curricular activities out of school so she's at least met a range of people?)

I am not sure how your DD knows she won't cope with larger classes if she's never had to try! And I agree with PP, that it might be a good point to transition ahead of going to university (where she is not going to have a small teacher/student ratio).

Does the sixth form have a large new intake? I think these are easier to settle into than ones where there are only 2 or 3 new people. Will she be getting involved with either extra curricular at the new school or things like doing a part time job (that's how my DC have met people at sixth form level)?

I think it partly depends where you are.
Round here, very few schools go above 16. So everyone moves, and everyone is starting afresh.
If you are in an area where most schools go to 18, and so there is less movement it might be a harder move to make.

No choice ours went to high school so no 6th form.

Her school goes from 2-18! She does a sport out of school with training x4 a week so yes has lots of friends out of school. Dd is in two minds to stay or move but as I said previously, adamant not to a college.

It’s working so I’d be loathed to change tbh. I think there needs to be a good reason to change when she’s a good friendship group, knows the teachers, works well for them & her, plus getting good results. It’s very different if they don’t offer the preferred subjects or she’s struggling friendship wise or the results aren’t great. It’s a big change for the sake of 18 months.

Change for subject choice or better teaching, otherwise there doesn’t seem a lot of point.

DD is changing to a sixth form college precisely because she’s been in small schools up to now. She felt going from small year group/classes to university would be too big a jump and wanted something in between as a stepping stone.

Vv common

My DD went to a non selective co ed independent school. She decided she wanted to go to an all girls school for sixth form and I was keen to move back to London so that's what we did. She's not very social, cut her ties to the old school and wasn't particularly interested in making friends at the new school but did make some. She basically just wanted to get good grades, which she did.
She probably would have done well at her old school, but this one really pushed her. But if I hadn't wanted to move too not sure we would have - it just wouldn't have been feasible (there was only one all girls school anywhere near us but still over an hour away and she wouldn't consider it).
Moving schools just because she's been at the same one for years doesn't make much sense to me - she'll be moving to uni soon enough. Moving to a state school makes sense if money is tight.
That one has better results is irrelevant if your child already gets good results.
But go look. I wouldn't worry about the social side particularly, but one thing my DD did come across was teachers didn't know her, but had taught her classmates for gcse. She didn't do things (write essays, take notes etc) the way the teacher had 'trained' the others. She was an unknown quantity and felt she had to constantly prove herself - this wasn't the case in one class where the teacher was also new. She also felt the teachers had their favourites already established.
But ultimately the change was good. Moving from a small town with a five minute walk to school to one in central London and a 45 minute commute by tube certainly took her out of her comfort zone and has made her more independent and confident. But that is a different circumstance to your DD.

Personally I don't want the big teacher / pupil ratio in a college whilst she needs to focus as much as possible for good grades.

So far i think she'll probably stay but will also apply for the grammar school sixth form.

Thank you for your time everyone

DS spoke to a very experienced teacher when he was looking - his advice was, if you're happy, don't move.

Colleges often have a better teacher to pupil ratio than sixth forms. I know from experience a friend who teaches A-level at a college typically has 10-13 children in her chemistry classes, where as the local sixth forms are normal class sizes of 25-30 for most A-level subjects. The sixth form grammar she came from regularly had A-level class sizes of 32/33.

Appreciate this is a while ago but my own school didn't have a sixth form. Most of my intake from my secondary school came from the north side of our county. And most of them have historically gone into other sixth forms that are even further north. Typically they divide between three different sixth forms and most of them are part of a large intake that all join together.

I'm from the southern part of the county and the sixth forms the rest of my year went to were too far away from me so I had to go to the nearest one to me. Which happens to be a very selective all girls grammar school (luckily I got the grades to get in). I found it very difficult to make friends. I was very envious of my existing friends who all got to go to their new sixth form together and are all still friends to this day.

I found moving schools very challenging. The teachers didn't know me, I got predicted very low grades for a levels and the other girls were unfriendly and uninterested in being friends with me. Both the teachers and the students referred to me (and the handful of other new starters) as "externals". Personally I found it really dented my confidence.

my DD went to look at 2 other schools, and had a place at a girls grammar school but she decided to stay at her school sixth form. Mainly as it’s got it’s own separate building / canteen so you don’t really need to go into the main school. Whereas the two others had a very small area for 6th formers and so they were still part of the main school. Her school is an outstanding school so happy for her to remain and I think the all girls grammar wouldn’t be a good environment for her so I’m glad she decided to stay put

I think it is worth looking at the proportion of people who move for sixth form too. My dc moved from a school where most people left to a school which nearly doubled the intake for sixth form. Most of dc friends left the original school. There were lots of people joining the new school so it made it easier to make friends.

Ultimately it would be brilliant to save school fees for two years if moving to state!

In our LA there is only one school with a 6th form. It is over subscribed and most pupils stay at the school for 6th form. Not many new students join for 6th form quite a few of them left within the first two weeks when DD was in year 12 because it was very cliquey.

At the 6th form colleges in the nearest two towns everyone is new so there isn't the cliqueyness that DD's 6th form had.

I would like to mention that if your DC has been at the same small school since primary age with no changes between primary and secondary or for 6th form she will find university a massive culture shock.

The son of a friend of mine was at the same school from nursery through to 18 and really struggled when he first went to university. He had been "spoon fed" too much at school. This simply does not happen at university. The tutors and lecturers are very hands off, and due to the sheer number of students they won't know them individually.

A sixth form college is a halfway step between school and university where they will learn to be independent, so I think your DD should at least look at a sixth form college, even if it is to rule it out.

If she is applying for medicine she will need to show resilience as well as getting some kind of work experience or volunteering. So getting out of her comfort zone might be a good idea.

@RampantIvy thanks dd has already done her first stint of work experience and volunteers weekly. Obviously these things will increase over the next three years.

DS is moving schools in September for sixth form. The open day last autumn was full of children currently attending private schools and looking for state education for A Levels.

For one of DS' A level choice there will be 12 in the class (and this is a school which had 500 applications for 35 places so not undersubscribed!)

I would suggest going to the open days of schools you like the look of and deciding after these. You can apply to lots and hold multiple offers. DS was holding six offers at one point, although he dropped out of three of these quite quickly. Some schools offer a "taster day" towards the end of Autumn term. DS found these very helpful in narrowing down his choices.

A couple of points about the potential grammar (obviously I don't know the exact school you are considering, so these may not be relevant to you).

1. Grammars typically have a large number of their Y7-11 intake stay on in sixth form. This IMO is the worst type of environment to come into as a newcomer. If you're going to move at sixth form level, I'd suggest it's better to target a school sixth form where there is a high proportion of new intake (e.g. it's about 35% at my DC's school) or a sixth form that's not attached to a school so everyone is new.
2. I would be suprised if grammar school classes were small. They may be smaller due to happy coincidence of timetabling/number of students taking a particular option, but it would be unlikely that a state grammar could afford to guarantee this. (e.g. my DS was in one A level class of 9; but equally another of 26).

I've just twigged that your DD is only going into Year 10, so potentially hasn't even started GCSE courses and sixth form is a full 2 years away. So I would also have look to have a Plan B up your sleeve in case she decides against medicine/doesn't do as well as expected (Getting 8/9s in Year 9 exams will be a school specific grading and may not translate to GCSE results).

You should also bear in mind that she may well change her views about small classes!