Do decent unis look down on doing a vocational subject at 16?

[Echobelly]

DS has ADHD, will be making GCSE choices next year. I'm worried about him given the unbelievable exam workload GCSEs have been for our oldest who finds learning much easier than DS (though probably also gas ADHD) I can't see how DS is going to cope.

I know vocational subjects are also work and not 'easy' but it looks like the ones offered at their school do have less emphasis on exams. Which might give him more space to do well better in essential exams like Eng Lang and maths.

DS has expressed an interest in Catering and Hospitality for example, and I'm up for that but DH gets very worried that a vocational subject means no good university will consider him. Personally I don't think is the case at all but I unless I can show DS some hard proof of this he will probably refuse to consider it. DS has indicated that he'd like to go to university.

Has anyone got experience a child taking one of these qualifications and still getting in to a good uni (I guess I mean Russell group etc)? Again, I'm not bothered about Russell Group myself I'm happy for it to be anywherethat has a good rep for what he ends up choosing, but DH will probably want that level of assurance that a top performing institution is not ruled out.

As long as he has a spread of GCSEs (including maths, English, science) having 1 or 2 BTECs will not make the slightest difference to university application.

Other than English/maths most university courses don't even have specific Level 2 study entry requirements.

Have a look at the entry requirements page for a university that your DH would consider "good" to provide some evidence?

Do you mean a Btec? And if so is it an extended diploma or a certificate alongside 2 A levels?

A Catering Btec is not going to get your ds a place at a RG university studying English Lit for example. But a Btec in sports may get them into an RG university to study sports science or a Btec in acting will them in to study drama.

He needs to look at the kind of university course he may be interested in and work backwards. Often for more industry led/vocational courses RG are not the best anyway and the non RG courses are or renowned for those particular subjects

Oh sorry, I missed that you were talking GCSE and not A level. In which case, it makes no difference whatsoever as long as he has the basic, maths, English, Science GCSE's.

Having spent a few busy days with the Admissions Team at my Uni - I would say that it depends what he wants to study at university. A lot of our science programmes require A level Maths, no matter how many other points you’ve got from other subjects

Does he want to get into hospitality/catering? If not then it would not really help him get into uni or into work. But if he had good A levels in English and Maths then it wouldn't impede his chances of Uni. It just wouldn't really add much. Especially at level 2. They won't really be considering it unless it's a catering related course I think. He might be better off just getting a job in a commercial food business part time alongside his studies then at least he'd be earning. If he just likes cooking.

The other thing I would say though is to check admission requirements for post 16.

Most of the colleges local to me say that to study A levels you need at least 5 (8 for the grammar) GCSE's or equivalent at Grades 5/6/7 (depending on the subjects you want to study) The private school however will only count GCSE's, not Btecs.

No, it doesn’t make a difference at L2. As a PP notes, a L3 BTEC is welcomed by most universities provided it’s in a relevant subject. For example, high grades in a Business Management BTEC will get you onto a degree in Business Management at a RG Uni.

As a more general point, there is a real weird frenzy about RG universities on MN (and I teach at one). In the real world, there are only 24 RG unis out of around 140 higher education providers in the UK, and they’re not necessarily the best providers for a subject, so don’t get weighed down by the need to get into one. Places like Aston and Reading (Henley) are ranked much higher in Business, for example, than many of the RGs. Loughborough, Solent, and Cranfield are brilliant for Sport. Strathclyde and Portsmouth are world leaders in maritime engineering - I could go on forever in the same vein, but the point is RG is not the be all and end all and in fact most students do not go to RG unis and do not have worse outcomes.

Focus on the subject and what’s best for your child, not the RG badge. And if he does want to go into hotel and catering management, well places like Manchester Met and Ulster could get him the qualifications he needs to run The Ritz!

My son got into Bath to study electrical engineering with a level 3 BTEC in engineering.

A couple of BTECs at Level 2 will not rule out one single RG or other university. (Person working at an RG here). Aside from anything else, we know most students don’t have free choice at GCSE!
He should consider any impact on his Post 16 plans, but as long as he does well in his English and maths GCSE and any subjects relevant to his plans/interests he can’t go far wrong.

Yeah, good maths and especially good English is going to be a challenge. He is a bit developmentally behind his peers at learning adhd he's catching up bit by but but whether he'll be ready for GCSEs in two years is a moot point. He's not bad at maths but the sheer volume of stuff he has to learn means it feels like a 6 would be a big stretch, and although he is very articulate he still has a lot of trouble writing his thoughts down and doing comprehension tasks. As well as remembering to punctuate. 😥

Being the parent of two ND children myself (both very clever but one in s a much more academic way and one in a vocational/practical way) I would suggest that your dh adjust his expectations for ds. If he is struggling academically in the way that you describe then a RG university may not be the best path. Some courses would be but from experience my son did so much better in a Level 3 Btec with fewer exams and a different way of learning and that has continued at his university where he is already starting to get industry contacts.

He would have been desperately unhappy and probably dropped out by now of at a mre academic RG university.

Yeah, I feel the same way but DH finds it very hard to accept lowering expectations. He also probably has ADHD which you think would help, but I'm not sure he appreciates that DS, although similar to him in many ways, experiences it in a way that causes him significantly more difficulty learning than DH had.

When DS was first diagnosed we agreed (or seemed to) that the emphasis should be on making education as positive an experience for DS as possible rather than pushing for academic achievement but DH has some of his mother's status anxiety and worries you won't get anywhere in life without great academics. I think - not to be complacent - we're a pretty privileged family in the scheme of things, he's pretty capable and there's no reason he shouldn't achieve fine in life even if he doesn't in school, and I work in an industry where plenty of people are doing well without being academic high achievers.

I'm quite interested in looking into apprenticeship degrees post 16, if DS is interested in anything that would fit the bill. At the moment his biggest interest is something working with animals, which I don't think ADs cover, but I'll keep my eyes out.

There's an animal care Level 3 apprenticeship, which might appeal at 16?

Degree apprenticeships are very hard work and you have to be pretty organised to balance work and study. May not be the best fit for your DS, based on what you've said so far.

Don't think there are many universities right now that have the luxury of looking down on anyone.

If he's interested in animals, do you have a local agricultural college nearby? They do have apprenticeship routes, not necessarily degree but that might not be needed anyway.

Is your DS set on going to university, or is it an expectation that he will want to? University isn’t for everyone and sometimes, alternatives are better for individuals.

My granddaughter has dyslexia and ADHD and I don’t think that she will opt for university. It’s a question of playing to strengths.

Don't think there are many universities right now that have the luxury of looking down on anyone.

That's very true, but applicants still have to meet the entry requirements.

As it happens, his cousin (18) has just started an animal care qualification at Capel Manor, which isn't far from us, so we'll be looking at how that goes.

Cousin is on autism spectrum, very bright but never very engaged with school and his parents didn't push him too much, wisely I think. His GCSEs weren't great but they did persuade him to stay in school afterwards and he just got B, B and a C at A level which is fantastic

@Bluevelvetsofa - right now he wants to go, I think he wants the general experience of uni. I'm not fussy about which it is as long as it's got a good reputation in what he's studying and decent outcomes for graduates.

Some of the universities that aren’t Russell Group and don’t feature highly in some measures, nevertheless have good employment outcomes for graduates.

Yes, some of the best in fact because they are very geared to certain careers.

It's pretty hard to tell with DS at the moment, he's only just turned 13 and not very mature for his age. He seems quite strong at sciences and drama - he's interested in history and very good responding orally in class according to teacher, but can't write about it well. He's doing computer studies as a full time subject next year and we'll be interested to see how he does in that.

Even those were massively reduced this year. There were absolutely hundreds and hundreds of degrees available this year with really low requirements in clearing.