Woodhouse College - to accept the offer?

[Loveandhappiness]

Hi, my son has a provisional offer to study Computer Science, maths, further maths and physics at Woodhouse. He is not sure whether to take the place (results permitting) or stay at his current school, which is a very good state secondary school with a popular sixth form. He is keen to stay where he is because the school is close to home and because his friends will mostly be staying on. If he stays at his current school he is adamant that he will do chemistry a level instead of a computer science because he doesn’t want another two years with the same computer teacher. For a boy whose passion is computing, and wants to do a comp science degree,
I feel it would be a shame not to do a subject he enjoys at A level, which I expect would also be fairly easy for him. From this perspective, I think Woodhouse is the better choice. I’m reluctant to pressure him but equally I don’t want him to make a decision that he might regret. Grateful for your thoughts/advice please 🙏

Assume you mean Woodhouse Finchley? Mine both did sixth form there, though not those subjects. I can't praise it highly enough, a supportive learning environment which at the same time allows them to begin to find themselves as adults. It's a brilliant stepping stone to university too; a huge advantage over staying in the same old school for another two years in my view.

Woodhouse has a good reputation, especially for STEM subjects. But it sounds like he's at a good school already so really it's a question of which he prefers. I know my DD needs the structure of a school environment whereas some kids are desperate to have a bit more independence in a 6th form or FE college environment.
Have you checked whether you need Computer Science A-level to do it at degree?

Thanks drang246. Yes I do mean Woodhouse in Finchley. Good to hear about the positive experience you’ve had with the school. Going from a familiar environment to a large sixth form college might be daunting for him as he is on the spectrum and has had issues with friendships in the past but has found a solid group at his current school so a supportive environment is important. Good point about the stepping stone to Uni as this is the route he hopes to go down eventually. I think it’s an exciting opportunity for him.

Thanks wherewearenow. He doesn’t need computer science A level to do it at uni but I think it’s an advantage in the beginning of the degree course. His current school is very good although I’m sure he would like some more independence. I think he might be veering to the safe option- familiarity and convenience (5 min journey versus 45+) to the extent that he would forgo his favourite subject! I’m a bit worried that doing chemistry instead of computer science as well as maths, FM and physics will so much more demanding. He could be dropping a subject that he could probably get a high grade in fairly easily.

I think at his age he should lead the decision tbh. The positive social side at his current school is important, especially given he’s autistic.

Woodhouse is a very big sixth form and it’s reasonable he might feel daunted, it’s not all about the academics.

Thanks donotgogentle. I agree it’s not all about the academics and re him leading the decision although I’d like to help him weigh it up without pressuring him either way. I would hope he could make friends at Woodhouse too, but it might take a while for him to settle in. I don’t know what the pastoral care is like at Woodhouse. Like you say it’s a very big college so he could get lost in it or he could expand his friendship circle.

Woodhouse College has a very good academic reputation and is highly thought of locally. How far would the journey be for him?

I'd actually encourage him to stay where he is of it's a good sixth form. Woodhouse expects a lot of independence, sixth form is very short and goes quickly. Its much easier in a familiar environment. He might hate the comp science teacher at Woodhouse even more, there's no guarantee he will like the ones at uni either so I suggest he changes his attitude towards this now. Easier said than done I know.

Thanks Strawberry12345, it’s about 45 mins to an hour. We are based in western Enfield and there are no direct buses. He’ll need to get a bus to Southgate and then another bus from there. His current school is a 5 mins walk/run away!

Thanks FoxesandSquirrels, part of me wants to encourage him to stay! I don’t have any experience of the sixth form but I really like the school, the head etc, and I think it’s continually improving. It doesn’t have the reputation of Woodhouse though. I agree 2 years will fly by and a familiar environment would be easier. He did meet the comp science teachers at Woodhouse and found them really engaging but I don’t think it’s something to base the decision on. Whilst he might not love his current comp science teacher, I don’t think that should be a reason not to take the subject you love.

I think the class sizes at Woodhouse are pretty big whereas they’ll be smaller at his school. I guess this will depend on the subject.

I was in the same position 15 years ago (God I feel old) and chose to go to Woodhouse instead of staying on at my secondary school (which I loved and was v happy there from Y7-11).

I had a fantastic experience at Woodhouse, I loved the independence and it was a very different feel to being at school. Agree with a PP about it being a great stepping stone for uni- if you think your DS might find that transition difficult, then 2 years at Woodhouse might be really beneficial in bridging that gap

DD went to Woodhouse from an all girls school. It was her own choice and she was very happy there and did very well. I would agree with Rose CoffeCup above.

Thanks Rosecoffeecup and Rocknrollstar, that’s good to know. Yes, I suspect he’d find the transition difficult, so something to factor in.

Oddly, Woodhouse didn't do so well with Computer Science results this year or last year. Only 40+% A*-B compared to much higher percentages for almost all other subjects.

That’s interesting Mossywell. Can you tell me where I can find those stats for other schools please so that I can compare?

@Loveandhappiness you need to look at the individual schools' websites in their results and destinations section. Most don't seem to have a results breakdown for this year yet but you can take a look at last year's results.

@Mossywell thanks. Yes, the school I’d like to compare with hasn’t published this breakdown yet.

I wonder why computing is so low in comparison to the other subjects (except Music). I know that the class sizes for this subject are large and I recall the tutors saying that there is a wide range of computer/IT skills and experience in that class. It’s a bit concerning though especially if one of the main reasons for going there is to do comp science!

I’ve been looking at the entry requirements for comp science degrees at various uni’s. Many of them ‘prefer’ applicants to have a comp science A level but it’s not a requirement. I guess in a highly competitive subject, comp science A level would be better than chemistry on an uni application (alongside maths, FM and physics).

It is incredibly, incredibly difficult to recruit a good comp science teacher OP. You can easily earn 3x that of a teacher in the IT sector which is why I said you need to have a chat with your DS about his attitude towards the teacher. He cannot base his decisions based on the teacher. Comp science teachers are notorious for leaving mid year. I would put money on the fact that's what happened at Woodhouse and the maths or science teacher had to teach it. It's really unlikely that he will get a better teacher than he has already. It's also a subject most kids don't do at GCSE so go in at a disadvantage. They mostly come in with 8s and 9s in maths so are quite cocky! People assume if they're good at maths they'll be good at comp sci which is fair but the GCSE is a solid foundation and your 8 or 9 doesn't guarantee success.

@Foxesandsquirrels thanks. I agree. Decision day is looming for him and many others!

Interestingly, DS1, his dad and me were invited to an evening to consider higher education options at the end of last year - I went with DS1 to a talk on Engineering - which is offered at A level by his sixth form but quite a few there were doing Maths and Physics like DS (with a whole range of other subjects). The teacher had trained and worked as an engineer but said most of his university friends had ended up in software engineering whatever branch of engineering they'd originally studied.

I've heard mixed things about Woodhouse - my DS1 was at an 11-16 school and dithered between APS and Woodhouse all summer, with a leaning towards APS. He was also planning to study Maths, Further Maths and Physics with Philosophy I quite liked the idea of Woodhouse as a college for him but I tried to resist telling him too forcefully that. One of my sisters and my other sister's DH went to Woodhouse and probably did a similar combination of subjects, and both recommended it.

He actually accepted offers for both on results day and and went to the first day at Woodhouse on the following Friday then the first day at APS on Monday. He then thought he wasn't sure APS was the right choice and rang Woodhouse. He could have switched and done 3 of his choices but the Further Maths class was full. At that point I said to him that, although I thought Woodhouse could have been great, that APS had a lot going for it, and that as he wants to study Maths (favourite and best subject since primary school!) and his university aspirations are quite ambitious, Further Maths was a deal breaker and he shouldn't give up on it.

A levels are a leap from GCSE and I wouldn't assume that Computer Science will be easier for your DS than Chemistry - it might or might not be. If the problem is teacher recruitment and retention and he's happy to study Chemistry, it doesn't actually shut off studying Computer Science in higher education or a career in that field, whereas not being properly taught/getting support to get a good grade could be a bigger problem. (This has been a concern for DS2 who is studying it at GCSE though I don't think he plans to do it for A level). Also, see my above post about an Engineering graduate who teaches at DS1's sixth form, who said his university Engineering graduate friends have all ended up as software engineers!

Thanks @elkiedee Interesting to hear about the mixed views. Would be keen to know more! Out of interest, re your DS1, was staying on at his school an option or did he want to move to another provision?

I actually think the comp science teacher is good at his current school. Having discussed with him this morning, he’s not worried that he won’t get taught the subject well if he stays on at his school but just doesn’t like his teaching style! Although doing chemistry doesn’t preclude doing a comp science degree, some Uni’s prefer comp science A’level. I think both subjects are difficult at A level but he’s passionate about comp science so I think it would be a shame not to do it. Anyway, I’ve managed to pursuade him that he should do it if he stays on at his current school so now the choice is not based on subject but on school/college. I didn’t realise you could enroll for both and attend the first days of each before committing fully. Maybe that’s an option for him.

Staying at his school wasn't an option because it doesn't have a sixth form - DS1 was really sad about that. He had the positive feedback about Woodhouse from family but that was a long time ago - but a friend's sister had felt that Woodhouse wasn't that supportive. I've also talked to a local friend whose DS1 had similar GCSE results to my son and is also doing Maths, FM, Physics and a 4th subject at Woodhouse, and is struggling a bit.

At the start of year 12 DS1 wasn't really putting the work in that he needs to, and his January mocks weren't great (B, C, C) but his feedback from teachers was nicely put and encouraging - they made it clear that they thought he was capable of doing better, but.... and he really turned it around.

I'm not sure I recommend attending the first day of each, and I don't know if it's an option this year - your son's school might start on the same day as Woodhouse, anyway. DS enrolled online at Woodhouse last year about 2 minutes before the deadline, which I think was 4 pm.

I would say by all means outline your thoughts/reservations to your DS, but that he needs to make the decision. I think it's a dilemma but I think his reasons for wanting to stay at his current school are perfectly valid ones, even if he doesn't do Computer Science A level as a result (and does Chemistry).

Aah, I see he's now considering doing Computer Science at his current school.

I take it that he's still got a choice based on his results? Does he need to enrol this afternoon?

@elkiedee thanks, yes I agree he will need to make the decision and either way, I think it will be fine. We’ve talked about various factors such as class sizes, cohort, travel, friendships, support, teachers, familiarity etc so I think he has the right info to decide. Knowing me, whatever he chooses I will question (privately) whether the right choice was made. He has his results and has enrolled in Woodhouse online (deadline is 6pm today I believe) but his school is holding a place for him until tomorrow afternoon in case he changes his mind.