If the government bought out all the private school…

[Tiredalwaystired]

inspired by the thread where a parent was incredulous when they investigated their local state school and really liked it after sending their kid to private school until now without having investigated state at all.

Imagine a world where we decided there was no more private/state school divide.

Imagine the government bought out all the private schools exactly as they are - same teachers, class sizes etc.

But instead of being exclusive anyone could now apply and they had the same admission requirements as any other school.

Would you be happy with this arrangement? Would you have any concerns?

I am sure there would be some private schools that would sooner close down than become part of the state sector.

The private school near us has massive amounts of land, small class sizes and state of the art computing/PE and library facilities. I would imagine most people would rather their child had those things to being in classes of 32 with no working technology and books that are falling apart.

But every child should be entitled to a good education with equipment that isn’t falling apart.

Ideally all schools would have decent facilities and reasonable class sizes. I don't agree with there being some schools like this that people can apply to (what would be fair criteria) whilst others remain the same. I actually think people paying is fairer because these would inevitably cost more per pupil and why should others pay fully for this?

Most of the money are spent on academic teaching and extra curricular. Ground/building maintenance money are outside the 15K quote figure, just like state school need to spend additional money for any building maintenance.

No I do not think that is correct. Private school parents pay for building maintenance via the school fees. So in fact a lot of what they pay goes on that, marketing for future pupils, in some schools bursaries/scholarships, and tons and tons of extra curricular and more bizarre subjects like Russian and Mandarin - as take up is low so those cost.

Pure Maths, English and Science spending is only more than state to account for the smaller class sizes but even there most successful eg London schools have class sizes of 22-24 at secondary level in eg. English and Maths. There is more spend on Science equipment and science labs.

Maths teachers and English teachers do not get paid much more in private schools, some get paid less. Ergo spend on key subjects themselves is only more to the extent the class sizes are smaller.
Our grammars locally have class sizes of 27 on average and set very specifically for Maths and the lowest sets actually have much smaller class sizes especially at GCSE level.

I went to a private school and seem to be on their mailing list somehow. They run fundraising appeals fairly often - generally for some new building/facilities. I assume they are doing this to compete for new pupils as much as anything.

DS got much better GCSEs than I did - at a state school, where the facilities were fine.

If you are only measuring the standard of the school by the results at the end, this is a valid point.
I got straight As from a shit state comp. Did my results mean the school was a good one? No. Do I look at schools based on the exam results of other people's kids? No.
I look at where my child is going to be happiest for the next 5-7 years.

Your wishful perception does not reflect the facts. Many private schools publish their accounts and finances in the balance statement, showing how they generate fee income and spend it on teaching and other expenses. One can calculate how much money is actually spent per student annually. It is more than twice as much per head compared to state schools, and even more compared to grammar schools. The extra spending covers all key subjects, including languages and STEM subjects.

Yes plus the subjects like: classics, Latin, ancient history, more breadth of sport ie 5+ different sports on a weekly basis etc. Our languages dept has got 7 teachers for Yr 7-11 then 3 for Yr 12 + 13 so 10 in total. Our local state has got 5.

Very true. He was happier at his school than I was at mine, so we made the right choice for him.

One of the key differences of the independent sector is that they can ask pupils to leave.

For example, pupils who are aggressive, disruptive, are persistent bullies, carry weapons or deal drugs can be removed, allowing the other pupils to focus on the enjoyment of learning.

And the majority of parents are very supportive of independent schools because they are paying a lot for their child to attend.

There are parents however who undermine teachers, don't support learning and generally make life difficult.

So in this imaginary world, making schools open to all would bring the problems that many state schools are battling with, in to the private sector.

Imagine the government bought out all the private schools exactly as they are - same teachers, class sizes etc

You couldn’t force the teachers to stay. and if you only spend £7k or so per pupil, there won’t be enough to keep on current staffing anyway. Per head cost at an independent is much higher. CLass size means nothing at all of behaviour is poor. You can’t force parents to give one and stop putting the phone down when the school calls,

oh, and many private schools are in listed buildings held together with blutac and good wishes. Good luck managing that on less than half the sum per pupil charged by most independents.

Languages are a good example. DS can choose between French, German, Spanish and Cantonese.

The local state school where he was offered a place only taught German between yrs 7-9 (1 German teacher). They offered GCSE French in yrs 10 & 11 (part time French teacher) but what was the point of offering French GCSE if the DCs hadn't learnt any French in the three preceding years. They would have been at a huge disadvantage.

When I went to their open evening, I was told German was a MFL as if it was just a box to tick, rather than a desire to study a specific language. 🙁

Our state school offers classics, Latin and ancient history. My DD did all three. It’s not an exclusively private option. Rare though.

Why do you assume only kids with money are well behaved?

Exactly, rare. Our local state offers only Spanish OR French.

The schools wouldn't be properly ran..kids would fail ,we wouldn't have any decent lawyers or doctors are MPs would be more dumb god help us if the government brought out are private schools

That is the snobbiest post I have ever read. Plenty of doctors and lawyers come out of state schools. And as for MPs I think we’ve recently seen an excellent advertisement for fewer private school alumni in power.

‘The schools wouldn't be properly ran..kids would fail ,we wouldn't have any decent lawyers or doctors are MPs would be more dumb god help us if the government brought out are private schools’

If that level of logic, grammar and punctuation was achieved by a private school education, your parents wasted a lot of money.

I’ve thought about this post and I think there’s a bit of trolling going on here with hindsight.

Sounds very Communist to me. Removing the liberty to buy the things we want (education) so that everybody could be the same.

The next step would be to do the same with houses. The government owns all houses and doles them out to people based on a lottery, or bulldozes the fancy ones to build terraces.

And clothes. Why do some people deserve to wear expensive clothes? Just mandate a uniform.

Oh why not just enforce a uniform salary so that no one can have fucking anything that someone else doesn’t have?

Where did I say that? I have worked both state and independent. There is no doubt behaviour is better in independents. There is also no doubt that some kids in independents behave very badly just as a majority in state behave well. Smaller class sizes mean nothing if there are people misbehaving - applies state or private. But you can't get rid of those who won't behave in state. What will do to the independent that is now state?