Triple science but foundation maths?

[gettingolderbutcooler]

Hi!
Child is doing triple science for GCSEs but has been put into set 3 maths so she'll be doing the easier foundation paper. For that paper students can get, as a maximum, grade 5.

She's not super bad or good at maths. Her teacher says she could go into set 2 and take the full paper but it's so much longer and harder.
Daughter isn't sure.
Teachers are giving her the choice.

Will this affect her going on to do science later on, like for A levels?

Thank you! Xx

She's going into year 10 in September.

If she wants to pursue science then she really needs at least a 7 in maths. Maths is central to the sciences. I would ask for her to move up a set

Yes I agree, a higher grade than a 5 would be better if she plans science A levels.

Triple science tho is really about quantity of content - the papers can be then taken as foundation or higher. So it’s not only for more able candidates tho at my DCs’ school it tended to be the more able as it was taught faster, in the same time as double.

Is that how it’s done for your dd, or is it an option block and so alllcated more time?

Is she likely to want to do science A levels? I know it’s early.

Year 10 is early to decide as well. Would it be an option for her to start with higher content and see how it goes?

There are some solid maths skills needed for triple science, I’d estimate grade 6 standard. But she will be taught these as part of her science courses so don’t worry.

As far as the exam is concerned you will need probably to decide by the end of December before exams, to give time to discuss with school before they put her entry in.

As long as your child won’t be distressed or underperform because of it, it doesn’t matter at all that the higher paper is longer or harder. As a lower grade student she will just be completing less of it and therefore in fact have more time per question answered than on foundation.

Essentially the marks required for the grades are much lower on the higher paper, but consequently it goes straight in at grade 4/5 level and it’s more essential that mistakes aren’t made in those earlier questions (as that would be her only opportunity to gain marks).

The very best way to judge is to sit a full set of each level of paper later on and mark/grade them yourself

Yes that’s a good point, being capped at a grade 5 in maths would prevent her from doing A level sciences

I would start in set 2 and move down later. Slightly surprised she is being asked to call it so early.

Don't think she could do Physics A level without higher tier gcse maths (put it this way, some places would want A level maths alongside A level physics). Also degree science would follow on from A level sciences and with only foundation tier maths that sounds a hard ask.

A 7......😩

@clary
Yes, triple wasn't offered to everyone (including her brother!). Has to do an extra session on a Monday.

Set 3 in maths is likely to have more problems with behaviour in my experience. Go for set 2 if you can.

@BonifaceBonanza

'As long as your child won’t be distressed or underperform because of it, it doesn’t matter at all that the higher paper is longer or harder. As a lower grade student she will just be completing less of it and therefore in fact have more time per question answered than on foundation.'

That's it though. Aim for a 5 as it's more likely? Or do larger paper and maybe get more? Or more stressed?

She will need a better maths grade to be able to cope with A level sciences but there is no problem doing triple over double science at gcse level.

@TurtleGemSaturn
Yes she only been an upper 4.
Teachers said that both groups will basically do the same curriculum until December, so if she moves back to her original set then they won't be able to see until a few months in to 2025 if she can keep up.

We regretted triple science. DC was pretty good at science but ended up with 3 6s (6 in Maths too) and probably could have had 2 8s if she had done double.

Double didn't stop kids from doing A level Science. That's at a very competitive 6th form.

If she wants to access much of A level chemistry (let alone physics) then she’ll need decent maths. DH (A level chemistry teacher) twitches at students who don’t have a 7 because they then struggle even more than the rest of the year group with the calculative elements (rate equations, mole calculations etc). Doesn’t mean it can’t be done but it’s a huge extra barrier to their attainment in A levels that are already a significant step up from the GCSEs.

@TeenToTwenties
Yes I have talked to her and the teacher and we will do that. She can always move back down to foundation.
And she's not sure how much she wants to pursue science (and as one of you said, it's quite early to decide).
She's a funny thing- great at art, but also liking maths and science!
I was in a lower set for maths at school but got an A - because of the great teacher. Sadly that's not an option for our kids now.

Thank you all xxx

Oh...😳😢

@DelurkingAJ
It's a worry...

I would do the higher maths paper if I was her, it doesn't sound as though she's been told she shouldn't? She has nearly two years to pick up her grade.
Physics and chemistry are mathematical. It really depends on why she is doing triple science and whether she wants to pursue this in the future, or whether she intends to follow a different path altogether. If she does struggle with maths a future involving a science other than maybe biology would be hard. Maybe she could opt for the higher paper and go back down if it's too hard?

DS's school only allows you to do triple science if you are also top or second top set maths. Physics has a lot of maths!

The practical application of Mathematics for Science could actually be the key to her doing far better than anticipated in the maths GCSE - because it's not just squiggles on a page anymore, it's representing something real.

Did she do CAT4s at all? She might have high spatial reasoning skills that just haven't been tapped into so far.

Also, yes you can do combined science and still take a science at A Level, as one of my children did, eventually going on to take a physics degree (which is basically maths!)

@NeverDropYourMooncup
Not sure what that is, sorry!

@sleekcat
Yes I think this is what daughter and teacher have now agreed. Sounds sensible x

It is fairly unhelpful to give the child the choice. The blunt question needs to be, is this child at risk of falling off the bottom of the higher paper and not achieving a 4? If the answer is yes then she needs to do foundation. If she has long-term aspirations which would be limited by a cap of a 5 on her Maths GCSE then she should do higher.

If she is getting a 4 at the end of year 9, I would have thought higher would be possible?
My dd was also getting 4s end of year 9 maths. She has been put in a class doing higher for GCSE and got a secure 5 in her recent mocks and is predicted a 6 for GCSE - teacher has told them everyone in the class is capable
of a 7 but I am not getting my hopes up! I have read somewhere (probably on here!) that it's typical, with a good work ethic, to go up around a grade a year in GCSE subjects. I guess it also depends how hard she is willing to work. My dd sounds similar, likes science and art - she is doing triple science on the higher tier. The maths for physics is not actually that hard, I think the chemistry is harder.
I think I would speak to school and try to get her on higher to start with, as she can always move down.