Are my DD's A Level choices a bit limiting?

[Sundaysiesta56]

DD has chosen Art & Design, English Lit and Maths for A Level, starting in September at sixth form college. She originally had four choices - the other one was History - but had to choose one to drop at the taster day she's just been to.

We had both expected she would start all four and then drop one after a term or so and I had anticipated she would then end up dropping either Maths or Art (keeping History and Eng Lit as a sort of pair).

She has no real idea what she wants to do for a career. Her predicted GCSE grades are 7s to 9s.

I'm a bit concerned that this is now a bit of a random A Level combo and might limit uni and career choices. I haven't said anything to DD.

Why did she have to drop one? I did 5 A/S levels and 4 A levels? Maths, FM, Music and Psychology, with economics at A/S

My plan was to do maths at uni - until further maths put me right off 🤣 It’s another world to GSCE maths.

Agree - not sure if art might be a bit limiting if she wants to get on a very competitive course, which she might if she's getting all 7s-9s.
EPQ allows more creativity if she still wanted to do something arty.
Good luck to her!

I did English lit, maths, history and physics. The split between STEM and humanities actually gave me loads more options when it came to uni.

AS suggests pre-reform ... I think doing more was a bit commoner then.
Apart from the exams themselves, my understanding is that schools/colleges are under more budget constriction now and that also can affect how many subjects kids can do,

They really should be allowed to start more than 3 though, even if the intent is to drop one within the first year.

Yes they are limiting especially given her grade standard. Unless she particularly wants to study art behind I would have dropped that

I did a similarly random mix - English lit, maths, geography.

Did maths at uni and now work in financial services. Pretty much all colleagues around me did more "standard" choices of maths, further maths, physics, chemistry.

I think my mix of skills have really helped me get on at work in areas my colleagues all seem to struggle with - writing plain English client advice and being creative and coming up with new ideas.

I think a rounded choice of subjects if that's what you enjoy is a great thing

It's not really very random these days - students tend to do more eclectic combos.

For most degrees it doesn't matter at all what your A levels are in.

Your DDs, by the way, are typical architecture A levels!

Very true @Piggywaspushed - there were some apparently random combos at my DCs' school for sure.

The pp who says art may be limiting is not really correct tho - while there are uni courses for which art would perhaps not be an ideal third, they are things like medicine which is often quite prescriptive about two out of the three. And even there I bet you could get an offer even with (say) bio, chem and art.

But clearly the OP's DD is not looking at medicine. I highly doubt any course she might be looking at, even at Oxford or UCL (or wherever) would dismiss her bc one A level is art.

DD (often my barometer) observed that those doing art A level at her school were the people who really really loved art and intended to take it forward. Is that your DD @Sundaysiesta56 ? just a thought, as if not, she might find that everyone else is. That might not matter to her tho.

I am not sure this DC's choice can be characterised as random or limiting. The choice is simply unusual and diverse.

Perhaps controversially, you could argue that 'classic' and much approved combos like Maths+Physics+CompSci or History+EngLit+RS really only refine and 'test' the same relatively narrow skill sets.

At my DCs' comp, the mixing of maths, sciences, essay subjects and creative subjects was certainly readily facilitated (with advice to avoid unwitting closure of viable future options). As a result, my DCs and many of their peers had 'mixed' A level combos, including several doing Art with maths and essay subjects or Art and maths plus a science. Some went on to Art College, others to uni for academic courses inc one doing medicine.

What I would say is that, of those who were doing a diverse range of A levels, the organised students coped better than the disorganised at dealing with a wider range of content, skills and general 'gear changing' required when hopping from subject to subject.

I think A level content and the fact that they are linear makes it more difficult these days. In England AS levels were decoupled in 2017 so there is more content to revise at the end of two years.

Most schools wouldn't be able to timetable 5 A level subjects either.

Picking up on the sub-discussion on Maths/FM and maths degrees, one of my DC looked at this in detail. Sites like SACU student give you a rough sense of the proportion of maths students with FM A level. Essentially, it was 100% for top (COWI) unis and immediate sub-COWI eg Bath but rapidly fell to 50% or less at other RG and RG+ unis. So the lack of FM does not preclude a maths degree.

The advantage of taking FM is that it gives you a window into the world of maths at uni and makes the first year a little easier. I would argue that FM had a utility beyond being an enabler for certain Maths, Econ, CS or Engineering degrees and develops logical thinking and problem solving skills that can be applied more broadly at uni (on unrelated courses) and/or in the world of work.

Thank you. I hadn’t even realised they changed. 😂4 was just ‘normal’

Perhaps controversially, you could argue that 'classic' and much approved combos like Maths+Physics+CompSci or History+EngLit+RS really only refine and 'test' the same relatively narrow skill sets.

The point with subjects required for some degrees including many STEM isn't merely 'skill sets', it's actual content that you need else you'll be lost. Someone who has done say physics and biology might have the same 'skill set' as a chemist but they'd struggle with a chemistry degree - the degree builds on content learned in the A level (unless they did a foundation year... that can be an option of course if A level choices turn out not to be appropriate).

With others subjects it really can be about having the right 'skill set' rather than already knowing specific content. (Anecdote - when DN was in the process of applying for geography degrees and deciding which of her 4 initial subjects (geography, eng lit, physics and maths) to drop, a Cambridge admissions tutor said it'd be fine to drop geography as they'd be teaching her that).

I did English, Maths and French and enjoyed having a range of different 'types' of subjects.

Nope. science, tech and engineering, economics only require A level maths, you don’t need FM or a second science for any of those.

“As nearly all of our engineering courses require A-level maths,” Loughborough #1 Uni for engineering https://www.lboro.ac.uk/engineering/

You don’t need physics to do engineering, you only need maths.

For computer science you need maths but not FM unless Oxbridge
For econ, you need A level maths not A level econ.

The only sciences she’d need another A level for would be biology, chemistry or physics science degrees, she can still do other sciences like agriculture, computer science, maths, actuarial sciences, astronomy, geography, environmental sciences.

The OP’s DD is bright, from her expected GCSE grades, and presumably looking at a higher-rated university. @SpiritAdder

No, I have not looked at every uni in the UK. But (for example) engineering at Lboro, since you mention that uni, yes a few courses (for example architectural engineering) just specify maths but many (aeronautical eng, mechanical engineering) ask for physics or something else (like PD) as well. It’s somewhat disingenuous to suggest that physics is not needed for engineering – it is for many courses. Same in Sheffield which I also researched. Numerous threads on MN bemoaning DC who want to be an engineer but didn’t take physics.

Maths is a similar story. A number of unis don’t specify FM but a lot of students will still have it. If you don’t, I am thinking that even if you get in, you will have a lot of catching up to do. I saw some figures on another thread suggesting that the vast majority of maths students at certain unis had FM, falling to 50% at the rest of the RG. Still even then that’s half the people. It’s asked for specifically at (for example) Warwick and Bath (just two randoms with good maths rep that I googled).

Economics tends to be a bit more vague on uni websites, but there have been numerous threads on here about DC who have struggled to get offers at uni (often the top ones for econ it’s true) even with maths and FM and high grades. I personally know someone in that position – so applying just with maths and not FM is going to push you further down the pile – for sure you will get in somewhere but it won’t be Imperial or UCL or LSE or Leeds or Nottingham. I agree with you that A level econ is not needed for an economics degree tho. I never said it was.

As you say, studying biology chemistry physics requires those sciences so again, perhaps it is a bit misleading to say that with maths A level you can study science at uni. I agree tho, many unis only need one science to study geography or env science or the other sciences you mention.

Anyway the chances are the OP's DD will end up at uni studying Eng lit and good luck to her - great choice of subject.

You don’t need physics to do engineering, you only need maths.

You certainly do for the higher ranked ones. (My dd did engineering, we looked at a lot of course requirements!).

The only sciences she’d need another A level for would be biology, chemistry or physics science degrees,

Ie the main three subjects. Of the other subjects you've listed, some of them aren't really what most people mean by 'sciences' even if they're on the STEM side.

Great, balanced choices.

It depends on the subject. Lots of degrees don’t need you to have studies that subject before

I did English lit, history and maths. Now work in accounting. It was a good mix of subjects to give a rounded skill set for degrees/jobs that don’t require specific a level subjects

I think you do need to be a bit careful. I did quite an eclectic mix and I wouldn’t necessarily recommend it. firstly you’re more likely to get exam clashes which is a pain but also some combinations do tend to match better for university applications.

There are also advantages of having complementary subjects as it makes it easier as some overlapping context across courses.