If your dc is bright & academic

[WindSweptCat]

..and if they achieved hight grades at GCSE, how did they manage to this? DS who did very well until including year 7 is having a slump and no longer achieving those top grades, he so readily did until he was about 12.

If you have an academic high flyer, what are they doing other than being naturally bright? How do they study? What are their routines? DC is extremely capable but doesn't seem to know how to do his best. He was set 1 in all topics in year 7 and is now set 2/3. This is a state school where there is some low level distraction during lessons. Yesterday. we talked about his report and he was sad he didn't do as well as usual. However he also said he had to study for a French test today and ended up not doing any revision and feeling bad and guilty at the end of the day. Is this normal? He enjoys going to school, has friends and is generally well behaved. Just quite unfocused and more disengaged than he has ever been. I'm really confused.

He doesn't get on with flash cards. I think he's been also distracted by his phone, watching YouTube instead of revising. It's so sad, he's very capable but not meeting his potential. He's going into year 10 and it's a worry.

So, if your dc' got top grades, what did they do to achieve this?

I tried to take the pressure off mine. She actually motivated herself pretty well. Her GCSEs were mostly 9 with a couple of 8 and one 7. I felt that if I'd pushed her too hard she would have burned out and might have got poorer results as well as poorer mental health. Every child is different but that's just how it worked for us.
Since primary school, she always had "extension" work from the teachers to stop her coasting. Because ordinary classwork was often too easy for her.
We had real problems in the early years getting her to socialise - this was the big challenge of school- but she's much more confident at that now

I would say that DD was extremely self motivated and driven.

She was also very good at working out where and when to put effort and where to slack off.

I think the early part of secondary school (and Years 8 and 9 are worse) can be difficult for students to stay focussed as they can't see the point of what they are leaving (more so for boys).

I'd also be clear what his grades really mean. My bright and academic did really badly on report grades in KS3 because of the way they managed progress meaning that students with strong SATS results were basically never going to hit target.

Chat to the school. It's easy to become complacent if everything is too easy. You see your mates struggling with something which is a breeze for you and it's hard to push yourself

He was always a top student and self-motivated as he always knew what to I'd say he is goal oriented so if he see the path to success, he'd work his socks off. But he has actually become quite disengaged. This is really surprising as he was the enthusiastic learner in primary and early KS3.

School doesn't show them how to revise or what good study skills are and so he hasn't got a goal IYSWIM. He wants good grades, likes to do thorough work but does not know what he needs to do to get the top grades, which he did until mid year 8.

What I don't understand is, he was contrite about his test and exam results (e.g. maths 67% when he used get 90+% in year 7 and part way through year 8.) and on the same day he's being contrite and saying that he 'flopped' this year, as he called it, he didn't do any revision for his language test for the next day. Why is he procrastinating and putting off his studies?

What limits do you place on his screen time?

It's easier to fail because you've done no work than to fail even though you tried hard.

Forget about grades and concentrate on and praise effort. Ask him if he's happy he worked hard enough rather than if he is pleased with his grades.

Why is he procrastinating and putting off his studies?

Potentially because he thinks that Year 8/9 grades are irrelevant. He may buck up for GCSE.

Maybe because he's hit puberty and is struggling with that.

Maybe his friends think it's not cool to work.

Possibly because it's easier to "fail" and link this to not doing any work than admitting that you are struggling.

If he doesn't know how to study or revise, that's definitely somewhere you can step in to support.

Very good point. It gives him a justification if he does fail, whereas working super hard and failing would make you feel stupid.

Which he clearly isn't, just scared, I think. What are his goals, can they be brought gently back into focus? Have they changed?

I think it has a lot to do with how they “click” with their peer set and how school engages them. Boys often don’t get quite so excited about the unimportant exams but if that means you’ve dropped a few sets, it limits what you can do later on.

My dd is at a v good comprehensive where they are taught multiple strategies for revision and is actively taught to underStand and focus on what works for her. So if flash cards aren’t helping, don’t use them.

The parents are also given similar information so we can talk to them about different approaches. There are some good “gamified” apps that reward you if you don’t touch your phone for an hour for example!

My dd has a friend who really wants to do well despite quite bad dyslexia , and so they study together quite hard. There is no shame at her school for being a bit swotty - the school acknowledges it wants pupils to succeed in life and is going to do its best to open doors through educational attainment.

I am really hoping my dd keeps her momentum up in Y9 and honestly I don’t think I can breathe down her neck if she decides to “bin off” some of the subjects she knows she’s going to drop in y10. So I’m going to pick my battles.

He hasn't got any goals at the moment but when he has a clear idea how to get from A-B, he'll be the fastest and most efficient to get there. But he struggles to work out the direction from A-B, if that makes sense.

Screen time is a problem, he doesn't game but is on his phone a lot, mainly on YouTube. I have now reduced the limit to 10 minutes daily.

He enjoys sports and is good at one.

His self identity was fairly strongly shaped by being an academic high achiever
but friends in his form and sets have overtaken him now and he seems disengaged and confused about why he's not doing well. He says, it's fine, I'll probably get into set 3 - looking sad but this is in stark contrast to how he use to be.

How should he revise for maths and science? What are good schedules, routines and methods?

Some of his peers do have tutors, as far as I know. Our school does not communicate any revision methods or strategies. Not in a concerted way, in any case.

I am picking up on the doesn’t know “how” to work.

common in bright kids who can just pick things up as they go along, until one day they can’t, and they don’t know how to learn if it’s not just going in automatically.

i was such a kid. My school did not teach exam technique. I did not know how to structure an essay, or how to break subjects down and learn key point.

i remember trying to revise for GCSE’s and just thinking how the fuck do I memorise two years of work per subject? So I didn’t.

it wasn’t until I got to uni and it was explained how to set an essay up- introduction, methods, results, conclusions etc it was like a bloody light bulb and I couldn’t believe no one had pointed this out to me. Also little things like if you have an exam with three questions, you need to answer two, and you’ve covered 4. Ditch one, learn 2 well, and another as well as you can.

possibly look at a tutor for exam technique? Or focus on past exam papers to see structure and how to learn for them.

I'm a secondary school teacher. It's very common for bright students to drop off at that age when the work starts to get a bit harder if they've managed to do well so far on sheer ability and haven't had to learn to work hard.

Dd had exactly that. Extremely bright but with possible ADHD traits. Didn't do as well at GCSE as she could have. Now at a really good uni and doing really well.

Ds also really bright but very organised and more ambitious. Made a revision plan for the whole of Y11 in September and stuck to it. He will get his results in August.

I'd be wary about believing the school doesn't tell them how to revise tbh. Kids always say this, even when subject teachers are constantly telling them how to revise and improve, especially in Y10 and 11. Once he starts his GCSE courses, all assessments and pieces of work will be geared towards the exam. They will have the markschemes etc.

I think @toomanytonotice you got it, this is what he struggles with. Interestingly his essays are pretty good and he enjoys writing them as he knows how to structure an essay although his history teachers commented 'To improve, needs to fully show reasoning when justifying judgement.'

Other teachers say this:
Chemistry: Examination result: 72%. Works conscientiously and homework is completed to a very good standard. Should continue to develop detailed scientific explanations for the long examination questions.

Physics: End of year examination 74%. Conscientious student. Units and rearranging equations are target areas.

In year 7 and 8 his test and exams were 85%+ in all sciences and maths 90%+.

He and we don't know how he should revise. I recommended that each week, he writes a summary of what he has learned in sciences to keep as a fact sheet and help him memorise content but he isn't doing it. He complained that in Biology they are expected to know the exact terminology I said that he'd have to study it like vocabulary, maybe write the terms on post it notes and hang around his desk. But no, he finds it very difficult to motivate himself to do any work.

It's the same with his instrument playing, he's not unmusical, really likes his teacher and advances a lot in the lessons but never practices at home as he doesn't have the company, so finds it pointless.

Those comments and marks sound pretty fine to me! Do you have a good understanding about what are reasonable expectations? I find secondary school marks can sound low but actually be very good! (to give you a point of comparison getting 75% in last year's Chemistry AQA GCSE would be a 9).

He and we don't know how he should revise. I recommended that each week, he writes a summary of what he has learned in sciences to keep as a fact sheet and help him memorise content but he isn't doing it. He complained that in Biology they are expected to know the exact terminology I said that he'd have to study it like vocabulary, maybe write the terms on post it notes and hang around his desk. But no, he finds it very difficult to motivate himself to do any work.

It's worth remembering that most of the feedback and advice about how to improve and how to revise will be given verbally, on a very regular basis, in lessons. Teachers don't wait until exam time or report time to give this kind of advice, and they give it to the kids, not the parents. It's amazing how many kids don't listen or follow the advice though. 'I don't know how to...' often doesn't actually mean 'I have never been told how to...' It sometimes means 'I can't be bothered to revise, so I'll tell my parents it's my teachers' fault for not telling me how'.

You can also find tons of tips and hints all over the internet about how to revise. BBC Bitesize is pretty good.

To give you a point of comparison getting 75% in last year's Chemistry AQA GCSE would be a 9).

They do sound low to me, are you sure 75% translates to a 9? I am mainly concerned as ds used to get much higher results and they have dropped by about 10-15% across maths and sciences. His grades are getting lower while his peers' are getting higher. I don't care about that per se but the trend is going in the wrong direction for ds.

Mine did lots of past papers but this was ten years ago, I'm not sure how accessible they are.

He was very self motivated, I didn't do anything except make him snacks and test him on things occasionally.

His usual routine was home from school, have a snack and cup of tea. Do a past paper, mark it against the marking scheme. Have dinner. Do another paper/mark it. Make notes on any areas he wasn't doing so well on.

He would rotate them and try and improve his scores.

Don't compare him to peers! Children don't progress in nice uniform ways.

GCSE grade boundaries are freely available by using Google.

I mentioned this as, unless you know how school tests are structured, it's very hard to understand what a raw score actually means. Tests might be set up so getting 100%is possible/desirable (knowledge checks) or they might be structured so that there is some proportion of the questions that is only likely be answered by the very strongest

Presumably you had a parents' evening this year? What did teachers say about progress? Are your expectations too high?

I think this is a really common issue- and once they lose pace/confidence a bit, it’s hard to catch up. If he’s willing, I think you can delve into how he would revise best and then tailor a revision plan accordingly. I’d also suggest past papers to help with how to apply the learning in a real situation, as otherwise they can get good at the theory of it, but struggle to apply in the exam.

If he’s not willing, or able to sustain the willing, then that’s really tricky. In my view you can only do so much (and I think you can do a lot! Don’t get me wrong- and teachers don’t have time for lots and lots of very tailored advice, so if you can crack how he learns best it would make a big difference). As others have said, phones are a massive distraction so ideally would remove whilst revising as otherwise it’s almost pointless and they don’t retain anything, but I get that it’s a battle.

I’ve 3 very high flyers. None of them bucked up their ideas until late year 9, early year 10. Eldest just got a first from a RG uni, middle is predicted all A* and youngest on track for 8/9 across the board. Eldest was the worst but suddenly he realised he wanted to do well and put the effort in

Is he perhaps eldest in the year?
I imagine mid y8 is when the maths gets harder. Also some of the younger in year can suddenly make a lot of progress. That happened with my dc1 with running where they were miles ahead then younger kids caught up the following year.

It doesnt sound like he is struggling with those marks - but it maybe that 100% is achieveable.

Perhaps he is finiding each test is now covering a lot but he is still cramming in just one sitting.

My high flyer is ND and revises by watching educational videos on YouTube.
Mind maps, flash cards, workbooks none of it worked. Maybe your DC can engage more if it’s an educational video?

Just do a search on GCSE bitesize videos and you will get dozens of revision videos in maths, sciences and english

Also our state school only ever sets revision homeworks so say science there is no background development weekly then revision.

Bright yes but my DD's grades were a result of loads of hard work! She was determined and self disciplined. I never had to remind her to revise! Despite doing well in one mock she didn't take it for granted, and in another subject she always thought she was the worst in the class so studied extra hard. She has said since her A levels that she think she might revised a bit more than necessary (she got 196/200 for History).
It is almost impossible to get an unmotivated child to buckle down. I think my son has ADHD, but no one mentioned that in school and despite tutoring and my help with scheduling and extra work books and loads of encouragement he just didn't study enough and did very poorly. His class grades were ok and only one teacher told him he was going to only get a 3 if he didn't put in some work. He did much better in his mocks. Looking back I'm not sure what I could have done differently. Himself looking back and I guess he would have studied more but I genuinely think he thought he did! The system was new to me (I think it's a terrible one).