Year 9 Entry- GCSE and Beyond

[samsub]

Hello Everyone,

We are seeking advice from parents who have experienced the A-Level entry process.

Our son is currently in Year 8 at a state secondary school. He has been awarded a music scholarship and, in addition, we have received a bursary from an independent school. These awards have made it possible for our son to transfer to the independent school in Year 9.

This will allow my DS to continue up to GSCE on the same level of support being provided by the school.

The school has assured us that despite the VAT looming on private school fees, the offered bursary will not be withdrawn up to the GCSE level. The bursary support beyond GCSE will be subject to a new application process.

At this stage, everything looks good. However, if we look beyond GCSE, we are feeling a bit nervous due to uncertainties. If our son performs averagely in the GCSE and no bursary is offered, then we may have to move him to a state school. Looking at the possible schools we may consider, it appears that priorities are given to existing students over external applications. This scenario could leave us in the lurch if he can’t continue in the same school and has to seek a place which could be subject to oversubscription criteria. Even if he does well and we want to move him to a Grammar school, there is no guarantee that there will be a place available considering our experience during the 11 plus admission process.

We are now realizing that his A-Level entry is subject to a great deal of uncertainty, such as bursary provision and oversubscription criteria, which are beyond our control. Even if he achieves good results, there is no guarantee that we can continue in the independent school because financially we can’t afford without a bursary provision. Furthermore, in the state school, there will be limited seats available for external students, which will be subject to fierce competition. This could potentially lead to a situation where we may have to transfer him to a school with a lower rating at the most critical time of the academic year.

When we embarked on this journey, we thought that at A Level, it would be an open application and there would be no preference for internal students or catchment requirements to secure a place in a state school.

Are we overthinking, or is there generally a large turnover between schools?

We appreciate any insights you can provide.

It's difficult to say without knowing where you are and the local school or college options.

In many places there is a lot of change at the end of Year 11. Many go to 6th Form colleges or move to different school 6th Forms. Entry is often based on merit (GCSE grade averages) with some Y11s holding a number of offers for different schools and making a decision on results day. In some areas where most schools still have a 6th Form most DC stay at current schools and there is little movement.

Many independent schools offer very generous scholarships to high achieving students but fewer bursaries. With the probable introduction of 20% VAT on fees these may become less generous but difficult to predict what the situation may be in 3 years and what is published now could be very different then.

In your case I guess you have a couple of options...

• Take the bursary now and save every penny for the next three years in the hope of being able to pay for independent 6th Form if DC doesn't get a scholarship or bursary

• Leave him in his current state school knowing that he may have a better chance of a state 6th form place based on what you have said. Contact all local schools/colleges with 6th form provision and ask for the % of existing v new pupils.

• Move to the independent school prepared to take a gamble on what the options might be at the end of Y11 but knowing you've benefitted from the music scholarship etc.

A Levels are a long time away and may not even suit your son. Make the best choices for right now and worry about it in Y11 when you’ve got a better idea of his aspirations, strength and local choices.

How competitive is the scholarship and bursary that he has just been awarded? If it's quite competitive (especially if it's full fees, from the sounds of it), then he must be quite talented or the school see a lot of potential in him, which you would hope would transfer into good results at GCSE - hopefully enough for them to continue the support to A-level. If it's not such a competitive award, then that might be a different story.

I'd ask the state school for proportion of new vs continuing students, to give you an idea of how many actually do stay on in the end; what else is on the oversubscription criteria after current school - is it distance? And I'd ask the independent school what sort of scholarships and buraries they currently offer for sixth form, and whether they expect that number to continue. Do they easily fill their sixth form, or do they need to encourage people to come? Do they know that you are re-considering the place, because of that? If he has won a very competitive scholarhip at this stage, they might be keen to encourage him to take it up, and maybe they could come to some kind of agreement.

Currently independent schools have a pot of money they give to bursaries which allows them to justify charitable status.

Labour adding vat to school fees is also the removal of charitable status. Kier starmer, recipient of a bursary himself, is actually stopping others receiving these as they will be stopped.

The last of the money in the bursary funds will go to helping the kids whose parents would have to withdraw them because of Vat. My DS was going to get a bursary for an independent school but they had to use the money for existing kids affected by covid instead. they are not limitless pots of money

Once charitable status is gone, no more bursaries.

If you are being offered a three year bursary you are incredibly lucky . you just have to decide whether you think that will allow your son to achieve sufficient grades to get into the school of his choice at a level or whether you think he can do well enough at your state school. plenty of kids to brilliantly at state school and it sounds like yours is an excellent one if jts hard to get in to for sixth form. personally i wouldnt entertain the grammar idea as its too risky. if he didnt get jn for 11+ the chances are slim.

Hard to know if you are overthinking without knowing what your local schools are like.
My DC's school gives priority to internal applicants but it also takes in a large external intake at sixth form level. Whilst they won't guarantee spaces for external candidates they are generally still advertising spaces right up to the beginning of September (the worst might be that they don't get their choice of subjects, but that's true for internal candidates too).

I would suggest having a Plan B and maybe a Plan C which has lower entry criteria. Generally at sixth form level your range of choices broadens. If you are applying for competitive schools and your DC doesn't get good enough GCSE results, then unfortunately he won't get in.

Labour adding vat to school fees is also the removal of charitable status.

This is not correct.

VAT and Charitable Status are completely different things. Labour u-turned last year on charitable status as they realised it was too difficult.

OP - I would worry about 6th form when the time comes. I was certain my DD would be doing A levels... in fact they would be completely wrong for her, and she is on a totally different track for post-GCSE that is much more suited to her talents and will end up with a degree.

Thank you all for your comments. I will return to the school and ask for some clarification regarding A-Level bursary support. My DS has received a 60% (10% music scholarship and 50% Bursary) waiver on the school fee, which has made it affordable. For the next 3 years we will not save anything to pay the reduced fee. However, upon further thought, if we look at the major milestones in our lives after GCSE, then in 2027 DS will complete his GCSE and will apply for Sixth Form. In 2028, we have our mortgage reapplication. It is likely to impact the mortgage application due to the ongoing commitment of paying school fee, even with the reduced fee (even if we are offered some bursary support at A level) at the time of application. I am now puzzled whether I should go ahead with the offer up to GCSE knowing that there is a great level of uncertainty at the A-Level and most definitely we may have to move my DS from the independent school as it can impact the mortgage application.
Any further thoughts will be greatly appreciated.

What is his current state school like? Why did you look at independent in the first place?

From reading here it is clear that different schools/colleges can have very different criteria for A level entry. Some just want eg 5xgrade 5 incl English and Maths plus maybe 6s for chosen A level subjects. Others seem to want total of 60 grade points over best 8, ie average grade 7.5. I think you are right it is very important to understand A level entry requirements for your local state schools, and the independent one.

In my area (no grammar schools but several very good comprehensives) there is a lot of movement between schools for year 12 and it's easy to get a place if you get the grades. If you get 7s in the subjects you want to do for A Levels, you'll have your choice of good schools. Maybe it's different where you are. I'd advise speaking to existing sixth form parents to find out more.

Lots of students move schools between GCSE and sixth form. You have no idea whether your DC will even want to go to his existing school sixth form. Your circumstances my change. I think it's fine to pick a school for GCSE and evaluate when you actually get to sixth form.

Presumably your son is a talented and keen musician? If this is something he enjoys, I'd prioritise this. Very sadly, many state schools are unable to fund much extra curricular music provision these days and the opportunity to play in an orchestra and other ensembles is no longer something you can take for granted in the state sector. If his catchment state secondary has these opportunities, I'd consider very strongly leaving him in the state sector as these schools are becoming harder and harder to get into. You can save the money to help him later on.

I moved my dc to the independent sector for years 8-11; he benefitted hugely from the musical provision and also enjoyed the chance to take part in sports fixtures (despite not being sporty at all, really) when, in a state school, he just wouldn't have been picked for any teams. He always knew he would be moving back to the state sector for sixth form. He had a choice of about 4 sixth form options, chose he one he liked the feel of best, settled easily and enjoyed his 2 years there although, thanks to Covid and a lack of funding, there were no extra curricular activities for him to participate in.

I'm a secondary teacher and have taught in both sectors (currently back in the state sector). As a musician (not my specialism in school, although I have taught my instrument privately), I'm devastated at the slashing of music and the arts by our previous government - all children should have these opportunities. My current school can't compete with the opportunities provided by the private sector and my son would have missed out had he gone there instead.

I'd say look at the person your son is first and choose the school you think will best enable him to flourish. Sixth form is still a few years away, many children switch schools at this point any way, and who knows what lies ahead given the change of government?

Take the bursary. If he does well at GCSEs he will be more attractive to A level providers or gain options for post-gcse study you are not yet aware of.