What to ask at grammar school open day

[Scottishgirl85]

I'm attending an open day for a Bucks Grammar tomorrow. My daughter is Y4 so I'm a year ahead of myself, but want to assess the various options well ahead of applications.
What kind of questions should I be asking?

What's your reason for considering a Bucks grammar?

Are you in a different county and deciding whether or not to bother to apply there?

Do you live in Bucks so stuck with the grammar system but have a genuine choice of possible grammars and you're trying to choose between them (not the case in a lot of Bucks)?

Do you live in Bucks and are trying to work out whether the grammar is worth it for your child and if you might be better to move somewhere without 11+?

Are you considering whether to send your child to the grammar school (assuming they pass 11+) or go to private school?

I suspect the answer to these will affect the questions you want to ask.

(I'm assuming since you make a point of specifying it's a grammar school, that you're not asking about general school open day questions).

I think the big thing in Bucks is the difference in “feel” between the co-Ed’s and the single sex grammar schools. They are different, but could be equally a good fit, depending on your child.
Ask the kids who show you round about the specifics of the things that your child is interested in; e.g. is there a girls football team that plays fixtures? How many boys join the choir or play an instrument? That sort of thing.

also: how much homework do you have per night? Do you manage to get it all done?

• what foreign lang choices will be offered ? Is it mandatory or my child can choose on their own?
• What subject is mandatory in your school in GCSE? What is other subject choices?
• Ask the students about the teacher turn over rate.

Always always always talk to the children about their experiences. They are refreshingly honest!

what do they like best? What’s the worst thing about the school (beside lunches and PE in the rain)? Which teachers do they rate and why? Etc

Thanks everyone. Just back and I was really impressed!

@redskydarknight we're in Bucks and won't be moving, so our strategy is:

If pass 11+, choose between girls grammar or mixed grammar

If don't pass 11+, then choose between 2 local secondaries, or consider private.

So we have 5 schools to visit!

We are in the same position, only looking at the one local secondary in case of not passing 11+ though. Also have a Y4 girl. Which private school are you looking at?

@DearOccupant Planning to view Pipers Corner. It's our closest, and I'm keen not to travel too far. I'm generally not a fan of private, but the Bucks system is driving me towards it!

Thanks - and potentially likewise!

I went to girls grammar in Bucks, and always vowed that any daughter of mine (I only had sons, as it turned out) would not go single sex grammar. They made a big play of 'joint events' with neighbouring boys grammar (where both my sons went) which was rubbish. When we looked round boys grammar for our sons they were still saying about 'joint events'. Rubbish. But the offer was good and appropriate education-wise for our non-assessed Aspergers son.
Anyone I've met who went to local co-ed grammar are always more rounded individuals with a broader interest in life.
Apologies for long post.

Ask about their pastoral care, how they support the students emotionally, who the students go to if they're worried or upset about something, if they're ill, that kind of thing. Try to see if they talk about how they ensure that poorer children aren't excluded/use of Pupil Premium - even thought it might not be relevant to you, if they make efforts to look after the financially vulnerable families, it suggests they care about everybody, not just wealthy, high achieving and perfect in every way kids.

Behaviour policies and the like are mostly universal because they're a legal requirement - but do they actually care about the kids' security and happiness as well as their results? You can get an idea about whether staff come across and warm and friendly (or restrained but caring) instead of 'Our results are...you must do this or you will be punished...we practice zero tolerance of <anything but bullying/abuse, as those you want to be zero tolerance> /...everybody wants us, we don't want you, you should be grateful to us and here's our forms for making contributions by standing order, as if you don't make this contribution, we'll know you don't care about your child/etc'.

Do the staff look happy, are they smiling at one another or is there a harassed and exhausted looking person/couple of people doing all the work whilst the important people stride around, barking orders at them? A poor attitude to staff often translates to a poor attitude towards children that are struggling for any reason.

Academically able children can be vulnerable in different ways, as well as in the same way as less so. Neurodiversity is just as prevalent in the group as anywhere else. So you need a place that cares about the kids, not just the results or prestige.

If you're shown round by a pupil, ask whether they would want their younger brother or sister to follow them to the school. I have had some very enlightening responses to that question over the years.

Genuine question @Theoldwrinkley do you think things have changed since you attended a single sex school?

As someone who went to the bucks co Ed and now teaches at a single sex elsewhere…

what extra curricular provision and encouragement/requirement/support?
what pastoral care and how are day to day issues handled?
quality of careers guidance and meeting of the Gatsby benchmarks - who comes to their careers fair or similar events?
quantity of homework and how is it managed?
ability of students to handle stress
How long have staff been there?
How are classes determined? Eg setting etc, who does what language
do they do triple science?
how many gcse options and how do they work (what free choices)
what are class sizes like at gcse and a level - pick a few a levels to ask about across the different areas eg science, hums. It’ll show you the different level of provision it doesn’t matter what child is interested in.

I love the question of whether you’d want a younger sibling to go.

fwiw I adores the Floyd, but it was quite a while ago!! Great ethos ‘confidence without arrogance’ as the unofficial motto

Thanks, Floyd is on our list!

So helpful thank you!

If you use the search facility on MN for Pipers Corner you may find some threads useful.
The recent feedback has been less than positive.

@PollyMolly3 yes I've seen things about bitchiness and bullying, is that what you mean? Do you have personal experience? I haven't visited yet, but will have this in mind. I'm wondering if it's really worse at Pipers than any other school though, especially girls' schools!

I always thought there's little point in asking questions in an open day : The preference was more or less in the mind by intensive research upfront. Lots of "outstanding"/"good" schools are headed by a headteacher whose attitude is less than welcoming or warm. It's not uncommon that the balance is tilted towards school on the side with power.

But the questions you suggested are really valid and extremely tangible ones. I wish I've seen them a year earlier.

However, the reality is we as parents are unlikely given the chance to ask all these questions in the state school system. If we get to ask two, it would be already quite something. With private ones, it might be a different story.

Lots of the answers will be on the web site too. The school won’t be offering a bespoke education for every dc. Parents do have to go with the flow to some extent.

@Scottishgirl85 I live in the same area as you I expect. When we looked for DD we found parents at our primary overwhelmingly wanted AHS for the girls. Not a single one went to SHF. Neither school is pretentious. Pipers is!!! I know quite a few who have been. I would move to Wendover. Or Waddesdon. They have the best, well liked and well supported secondaries.

@TizerorFizz We're in Wendover :-)
So Colet seems good choice if don't pass 11+? I'm just really worried about the top set being stripped away, and hence potentially being at school with a high proportion of kids who don't want to be there :-(
I wish grammar system didn't exist!

@Scottishgirl85 Hi!!! Near me!

I have many friends with DC who have been to John Colet. Dc of Head Teacher, PhDs, uni lecturers, teachers, nurses, accountants, company directors, etc so people who value education. It’s been a school that drops the ball occasionally but is overwhelmingly supported by parents. The DC I know all thrived there and all have gone to very good universities.

I would say I have known two parents who didn’t want dc to go there. They made the lives of dc miserable by making them do 12 plus with a huge amount of tutoring. Both got into Chesham High (you would never get in now!) but they didn’t thrive and one had serious behaviour issues which I won’t elaborate on. The 12 plus route is essentially closed off now and most don’t try if they get JC or Misbourne.

Therefore, most parents do accept their dc will be happy at JC and support them to do well. Many we know have done fantastically well. Also JC will have around 30% high achievers. Thats a strong group to work with and they have decent sats results. By the time the dust settles after the 11 plus, the wise parent is positive and supports the school so you won’t find many not liking the school and unhappy. Many cannot afford private (house prices!!) so it’s JC or nothing but others can and don’t necessarily avoid JC!

A few I’ve known have gone to Pipers and Berkhamsted. You have a choice of these two as day schools. I would look at both but both are selective and I’ve known dc not get into either.

@Scottishgirl85 Just to add: both grammar open days you want to go to are complete bun fights! Hundreds and hundreds of wannabes there. You won’t get any opportunity to ask much. You will just feel that it’s an overcrowded space. I didn’t even think y4 parents went. No one I know did as it leads to even more over crowding. Also, you don’t learn much. Maybe take a view on the head? Look at classrooms, think there’s not much outside space and have a chat with a pupil if other parents let you! These are basic tours, not much else. Better to find a pupil of the schools and quiz them!

Gosh thank you @TizerorFizz This is SO helpful and reassuring re JC. My husband and I are very academic so I feel so much pressure to find the perfect school. So interesting re miserable kids getting tutored into Grammars, this is a big worry of mine as I think our eldest is borderline suitable for Grammar.
I went to the open day last week at AHS and LOVED it! I asked our Y7 guide so many questions and they were clearly so happy and confident, and the Head was impressive. What will be, will be!
Will look at the privates too, but the draw of walking to school and having £30k extra in savings a year is strong for JC! I've heard good things about Misbourne too.
Gosh in my day we just went to our local school with no discussion...!

Don't know the area at all, but don't assume that just because a kid has got into a grammar school, they actually want to be in school! There will be behaviour issues at most schools.

A lot will depend on your child's interests and what subjects they're best at.

If they excel at Maths, ask whether the school does Further Maths at GCSE and A level?, Whether they enter a team for inter-school Maths competitions, etc.

If they're into football, check that football is actually an option during games lessons (this caught out my son, he "assumed" his school would do football, but they had both winter terms of only Rugby!).

Do they offer separate sciences or just the 2 or 3 combined science option?

What languages do they offer at GCSE level? Do they do classics (i.e. Latin or Greek).

If they're into drama, ask about the school theatre, what kind of "performances" do they do? How many per year?

Schools vary enormously, so you need to find which is the best "match" to your child's expectations and requirements.

Perhaps most importantly, ask existing pupils about pastoral care, bullying etc - all schools have a very similar copy & paste "policy", but you need to know from pupils about the reality of the what the school actually does, not what they say they do!