Appeal secondary school

[Sejn123]

My question is the can the school appeal panel that said no to an appeal, be the same panel that said no to this mid year term appeal.
Appealed in 2023 for oversubscribed school,panel said no.
We were told by admissions to try again if things got worse, which they did. Appealed again this year, two out of the three panel members were the same people as previous year.
Admission had already allowed two children in to the oversubscribed school in the last few months, maybe they had SEN ,do not know. One I know came from a private school.
Is it normal for same panel to interview you twice on such an important matter.
I am not saying they won't be impartial, but they already have an opinion on us from before.
Can not find the answer on the admissions policy. Please help. Thanks

Members of independent appeal panels are volunteers.

There is not an infinite number of people willing to give up.the time to be trained and to undertake the unpaid work of independent appeal panel member, so yes, whether the school takes responsibility for having its appeals heard, or employs the services of a local authority Statutory Appeals set up or one of the commercial companies which organise appeals hearings, it is not at all unusual to find that one, two, or all members comprising the panel for Appeal A also comprise the panel for Appeal B on another occasion. Or even for more than one school on the same day, with some of the appellants appearing for two schools. Say, for example, a school will / can only have someone available to present its case on a Monday afternoon. There may be only a very few panel members available at that time and only one of them can chair, two of the other three can only sit as a Lay member and not Education... so yes, it is very, very likely that all appeals, for whatever stage, will be heard by the same panel.

Each parent appeal case is heard in its own 'bubble', however many times the same appellant has appeared before the exact same panel. So worry not.

If a school has gone over PAN not as the result of an appeal, it will still because it was directed to do so for some reason - EHCP / LAC / under the terms of the Fair Access Protocol / last eligible applicant a multiple birth, if main round etc. The panel will normally quiz the presenting officer as to the timing and circumstances of any admissions made since the time of the appellant’s application, plus those of any which have taken the year group over PAN.

Thank you for response, I understand how it works and the panel are volunteers. I have been to 4 appeals now. I understand the criteria for placements and over Pan etc.
It was just how can the panel be impartial, when they have already a year ago, they heard our appeal. I understand they will have sat through many,many appeals, I know they remembered us from certain questions asked again.
It does say in the policy"panel members should must not have a vested interest in the outcome of any stages of the appeal or be involved in an earlier stage of the proceedings, ie, the decision to refuse admission." Am I not understanding the information right. Sorry if I don't it is all very confusing.

The fact some of the panel were involved in hearing your previous appeal does not mean they have a vested interest, nor does it mean they were involved in the decision to refuse admission. That is referring to the admission authority's decision, not that of the previous appeal panel.

Appeals are governed by the School Admission Appeals Code. The only circumstances in which a completely different appeal panel must be supplied is if you are allowed a second appeal for the same academic year due to a change of circumstances, or the ESFA or LGO has ordered a fresh hearing due to a problem with the way the appeal was conducted. As your recent appeal will have been for the academic year starting in September and your previous appeal would have been for the 2023/24 academic year, there is no problem with the appeal panel including some members who heard your earlier appeal.

Thank you for response and information.
I am just trying to navigate the system that is extremely difficult and as a parent I feel unfair. I know I am not the only parent going through this nightmare.
Honestly, parents will try and find any loop hole to help their kids. Each individual family going through the minefield of the system, this period of getting them into a school with there friends, with a decent education within a safe location is that parents whole world. Other families may have it worse, but this is your child, and in your eyes this is the worst situation over anyone else.
Every case has a sob story, some worse than others, but YOUR child comes first and you will move heaven and earth to give them the a content, safe and decent education as you only get one shot that will shape there future.
To have your child ripped away from there classmates, be the only child not given a space with 22 of his classmates.... do you know what ,I could give you the sob story, but the truth is if he hadnt got a label attached to him, he just doesn't stand a chance.

would politely suggest:

1). All parents DON’T try and find loop holes to get their kids into schools. The appeals process exists to correct errors and to address genuinely exceptional cases. It’s not there for parents who just don’t like the outcome. Those parents who clog up the system with their spurious cases should just stop.

2. To feel sorry for yourself and suggest kids with SEN are somehow gaining an advantage (or that your kids are disadvantaged by not having a SEN) is absurd. Just count yourself lucky that your son or daughter doesn’t face those challenges and that the only issue is they are not going to the same school as their mates.

3. if you really want to help your kids the best way is to teach them that in life there will always be things that don’t go exactly how you hoped - teach them to deal with those set backs, to embrace the unexpected.

Thank you Topcat for your response.
So we clog up the system, it is there for genuine exceptional circumstances.
I won't give into detail on my son's issues, or how it has changed his life for the worse because that's just feeling sorry for yourself is it?
In the real world when your hear other parents go to extreme lengths taking their kids to doctors and act out symptoms of depression and say it was easy to get a support letter. Or lie and exaggerate the kids symptoms to get more support, that is difficult to swallow. One parents child won't go to school, didn't really bother with primary school either, " he likes to be at home and can't be bothered, so I won't push it" was her exact words. So now, so she doesn't get into trouble he has been given a label of School Avoidance Syndrome!!!! That's easier isn't it.
Shall I teach my son, that if his grandmother with alzheimer's gets sexually abused in her sheltered accommodation but the police do not want to press charged, because it would be a minefield.
That my brother who was left on a&e trolly for 23hrs with bone in his spine and because he was not treated is now paralysed on one side, could not work, lost his home, and could not get help until the day he became homeless.
But i will just teach him to embrace the unexpected shall I.
All systems are broken unless you fight them anyway you can. I could give you many more examples from the real world.
Do I want my child to wet the bed, try and self harm, cry himself to sleep and be physically sick ,shut himself in his room and loose all his friends because the system has to be political correct and yes I said all this in four appeals. But no because other kids from other backgrounds had to come first, and spaces have to be kept incase anymore move into the area from another country. I have continually adhered to the systems and trusted them to do the right thing, but it goes against you. So I will continue to fight and clog up these systems.

Wow OP if you want any genuine advice you’re not doing yourself any favour at all with that last post.

Its a shame really as there’s some fantastic appeals experts on these boards who have been giving detailed advice to posters for years, some even going so far as to accept PMs from posters with school names so they can advise with even more detail personal to the school/area.

If part of your appeals have been focussed on complaining about other pupils and “political correctness” then you’ve misunderstood the appeals process and could really use some advice.

But no because other kids from other backgrounds had to come first, and spaces have to be kept incase anymore move into the area from another country.

If the 'Other background' is something which means that the applicant was ranked further up the list against the school's published oversubscription criteria than your DC, or is in a category such as having an EHCP naming the school, which, by law, compels the school to admit whether the year group is full or not, then yes.

No state school is permitted to hold places back in case someone moves into the area from anywhere. The only mainstream schools which are permitted not to offer up to their PAN are designated grammar schools, in the even of fewer academically qualified applicants than there are places available.

when your hear other parents go to extreme lengths taking their kids to doctors and act out symptoms of depression and say it was easy to get a support letter. Or lie and exaggerate the kids symptoms to get more support, that is difficult to swallow

None of this will result in a child getting a school place. Medical needs only give priority if they can be used to show that the child needs to go to a particular school. A child being depressed make no difference at all.

One parents child won't go to school, didn't really bother with primary school either, " he likes to be at home and can't be bothered, so I won't push it" was her exact words

If this is true, she is ruining her child's life chances.

Do I want my child to wet the bed, try and self harm, cry himself to sleep and be physically sick ,shut himself in his room and loose all his friends because the system has to be political correct and yes I said all this in four appeals

If that was your case, I'm not surprised you lost. To win an appeal you need to show that the disadvantage to your child from not going to the appeal school outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with an additional pupil. Friendships tend to be fairly fluid at this age, so appeals based on friendship issues will generally only succeed if there is evidence from a medical professional saying that your son has a particular need to go to the same school as his friends. And going on about political correctness (which has absolutely nothing to do with how the system works) won't help you and makes it less likely that the appeal panel will give you the benefit of any doubt.

But no because other kids from other backgrounds had to come first, and spaces have to be kept incase anymore move into the area from another country

Schools can give priority to pupils eligible for pupil premium, which in essence means pupils from families with very low income. If the school is a faith school, it can give priority to pupils from families that follow the faith. Those points apart, a school cannot take account of the occupational, marital, financial or educational status of the parents, nor can it take account of race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. And a school cannot keep places in case people move into the area from another country, or even from elsewhere in the UK.

if he hadnt got a label attached to him, he just doesn't stand a chance.

You don't need a lable. Just a genuine reason.

My son won an appeal (in-year, into Y8) last year. He has no lables or needs. We moved 22 miles from his current school. I applied to all 8 schools within 1h travel time of our new house. All full, all declined.

Started the appeal cycle. Decline, decline again. So in my third appeal, instead of preparing a case, I just said to the panel, in a very downcast snd resigned way, "please tell me what should I do?" I'll get a place at one of these schools anyway though fair access, but I wanted the place sorted sooner so he missed less school. We talked about this in the appeal, not really my son at all. I left with a "yeah, whatever" resigned feeling that we'd just get another decline - but this one worked!

The key was, I think, that I wasn't concerned which school he went to (they are all amazing schools, that's why people want to live here), just that he needed to be at one. And while any one school can argue why its a detriment to them, the panel needed to see the bigger picture that my son had to go to one.

I find it interesting that this method was successful for us, as opposed to the often recommended method of preparing a case why that specific school was needed. In our successful appeal, we didn't talk about that specific school or any specific needs of my son at all. I think it worked because the panel saw a genuine need.

Your case will still have been weighed up against the case presented by the school. That's what the panel do - whether or not you were unsuccessful at other appeals would have been irrelevant if this panel, hearing the appeal against the refusal to offer a place at this school, felt that the school's case not to admit one more pupil into the year group was insurmountable. However, the fact that you had applied / appealed everywhere else and been unsuccessful will lmost certainly have weighed in your favour.

(Unfortunately, a lot of 'We just need a place, any place, and everywhere has turned us down' appeals fall flat when it turns out that 'any place' excludes the one school with actual places,available, which has already been offered and rejected...).

Thank you all for responding.
I did receive lots of advice, and acted upon it. I spent months reading anything I could research on how the process works. I read many case studies and listened to first hand experiences.
We tried to explain the prejudice against my son, now getting below standards after being top of his class for many subjects outweighs the prejudice not to allow him a space. Surely education is important. How his mental well-being outweighs the prejudice not to give him a space. A letter from his counsellor helping him with his present issues that have developed since his rejection.
We discussed many different topics and not just he misses his friends, of course that does hold any weight.
There were two spaces left ,even though they were over PAN by 8 pupils. Wrongly or rightly we were told he was the only child to apply again for this school year and were hopeful. I understand the school wishes to get back to the admission level without being over subscribed, but with 8 thousand new homes built in our area over 4 yrs, one secondary school shut down for more houses, admissions levels not adjusted since 2016, something has to give.
I could mention a few other details, but I do not want to get scolded by righteous folk. So will leave the thread here. Thank you all for your discussions.

sejn123 - it sounds like you and your family have experienced some real challenges and traumas and I sympathise. I think you should receive support and would encourage you and your son to ask for professional help, particularly if they are self harming. However, the school appeals process is unlikely to be best way to address this.