City of London 13+ application and CAT4 scores

[YourBusySquid]

Hi,

Can anyone please share details of the CLS 13+ assessment and interview process. I’m aware of ISEB with further VR and NVR at interview stage, but are there further tests in English and Maths too? We are applying in June 2024, to start in 2027…

My DS (age 10 at assessment in Nov 24) has a mean CAT4 score of 140 and is very confident and social, but not keen on sport.

His prep school (Dulwich) has recommended that we apply at Westminster, St Paul’s and CLS, however we are tempted with CLS because of the fees, shortest commute and it being less sporty.

Does anyone know whether they take into account CAT4 scores, in the event he has a wobble during the assessments? Also, would he sit a single ISEB test for all 3 schools mentioned?

My DS has not had any academic or interview tutoring as his school have advised the interviewer can recognise tutored applicants and it works against them - they said it stops the children being themselves. We plan to take their advice but can’t help feeling helpless, when as adults we are always told to prepare for interviews!!

Any advice is greatly welcome on my first post.

A very anxious Pauline

I can’t answer your question about CAT. But when it comes to interview ‘coaching’ I’d absolutely go through a few practice runs with your son. Do it yourself, it doesn’t have to be a formal process or learning a script. Any professional who needs to speak and hasn’t done so before would do this surely? Like you, I am just baffled at the advice not to prep for an interview. So don’t take your current school’s advice if you feel unsure about it too.

good luck!

Not sure about City specifically, but the prep is quite good at helping kids get into their chosen school (I assume you made your priority school clear to the prep?). They do interview prep in year 6 so you don't need to worry about that. Just remind DS of all the hobbies he has and books he likes to read!

As impressive as the cat score is, I don't think it plays a role in offers. It may count in some schools at the interview/assessment stage but I don't think it will for the schools you mention. The prep only recommends these schools if you have a cat score of 135+ any way.

Most preps do hold practice interviews to get the kids comfortable with speaking to new adults and coming up with a few topics to talk about. But this doesn’t happen until the autumn term of Y6 usually. Has the school actually said they do no interview prep? Or were you wondering if you should be ’tutoring' your son separately for the interviews (for which I would say no, other than coming up with some topics like books he’s liked, his hobbies, favourite subjects etc).

I have heard CLS’s interview is online for 10+ and 11+, so I assume it’s the same for 13+, a carryover from covid days I believe. I think they may also give reasoning questions for the boys to answer during the interview. Just some things to be prepared for. CLS does sound like a good fit for your son if it’s a reasonable commute and he’s not sporty.

ISEB - yes, it's one exam (four to be precise) but results are shared with all ISEB schools you apply to.
ISEB can be considered as some proxy to CATs.
CLS review results of all stages of testing (ISEB, exams, interview AND Headmaster reference) jointly, so he might be wobbly in some of the tests, but assuming he's strong overall he should be fine. Don't underestimate the value of prep school reference

Many years ago, based on my DS's CAT scores (consistently very high), the headmaster of his prep school suggested we aim for Westminster, CLS, St Pauls, plus a handful of 'backups'. We did the ISEBs in Y6, and he flubbed all of those - was on reserve list at St Pauls, but rejected out of hand by all the others except Dulwich.

For some reason, headmaster suggested we try for CLS 13+ entry. Over the summer before the exam, since I was between jobs anyway, I dug into how DS had been approaching the tests: turns out, he was entirely disinterested, didn't rate his teachers, and was dismissive of the tests' importance, especially the English essays.

Right. So after finding a bunch of more interesting excerpts to comprehend/analyse, on topics he might be interested in - revolutionary! - the two of us had a number of working sessions whilst on holiday. Something clicked, he took the exam, and he secured a place at CLS for this fall.

My learnings, related to your questions:

1. CAT scores aren't important to the secondary schools. They're more for the prep schools to steer parents toward specific schools.
2. ISEBs aren't used at all schools: St Paul's and CLS have their own exams. (So did KCS Wimbledon and Latymer Upper.)
3. Tutoring isn't going to help if there's lack of motivation. We used a tutor for the Form 6 ISEB prep, but he dreaded those sessions - I think it did more harm than good, tbh.
4. Relevance is everything. I'm not a professional tutor, I'm not an educator (I'm in marketing, ffs), but I know what gets his attention, and I know more or less how to write an essay.

Finally. The fact that you care so deeply, OP, means your child will be fine. I have been a very hands-off parent (well, until last summer) but work to focus on being present when I'm with my kids, to show they're valued for who they are, not what they're achieving. DS still is probably one of the laziest children on the planet, but he's finding his groove, and it's lovely to watch.

1. CAT scores aren't important to the secondary schools. They're more for the prep schools to steer parents toward specific schools.

I second this. Some primaries also use them to find DC whose achievement is not consistent with their "ability". A DC with high CAT4 scores but mediocre achievement may receive additional attention to see why they're not doing better. The reverse, a DC with mediocre CAT4 scores but high achievement, usually receives less attention; the assumption is often that they're being tutored. To the extent that senior schools use ISEB VR and NVR as CAT4 substitutes, this may be what they're looking for.

Gosh this is so similar to our experience! My son is also starting at CLS this September (13+). He also has top CAT scores (141) and bombed out of every 11+ test including CLS in the first round.

I think the Covid years didn't help and sometimes for bright kids they coast for a while, doing well on general ability before there comes a point when it has to be coupled with hard work.

I pushed for my son to sit for an occasional 13+ place at City. I had a very strong feeling it was the right school for him (I know the school fairly well) and am thrilled for him that he secured a place.

I fundamentally believe it will be a brilliant environment for him and everything I've seen so far suggests this is true.

Good luck to your son. Maybe they'll see each other there on September 4th!

Hi HRTea,
I bumped on this old post and your reply.
Please may I ask how long did it take for the City of London school to confirm your son's place (as I understand from your post, he too applied for an occasional place - reserve list). It is the same with my son who and we are currently waiting for the school to confirm if there are any vacancies.
I would greatly appreciate your response.

My son sat the 13+ occasional place process. At the end of the process he wasn’t in fact waitlisted but was offered a place for September. So it wasn't a case of waiting as it was in line with the timings outlined by the school.

I hope it works out for your son.

Thank you very much, HRTea.