Newbie question- how do secondary school applications actually work? In London

[cheerupluvitmightneverappen]

First time parent to a reception age child. Sorry for clueless question but how does secondary school applications actually work in England? We are in SE London.

We live in a great area but secondaries aren't so good locally so I'm already wondering if we will need to move closer to a good secondary, or is distance not an issue within applications? My child could get a bus or tube to school but I don't understand what application criteria is.

We are not Catholic or religious and would look for co-educational schools. Can I just find any school we like in London and apply?

Can anyone advise?

They apply in a very similar way to primary school applications. There is a list of criteria, of which distance is usually, but not always one. The admissions criteria will be published on borough websites. You are welcome to apply for any school you like, but you may not get in depending on where you sit in the list of criteria, and the number of other children applying..

You should note that schools change, and admissions criteria also change, and, if you're planning to move for a specific school you may wish to do this later rather than sooner (this works both ways and your local school might become much better over the next few years).

It's the same as primary - you can apply to any school, but the most common selection criterion (setting aside LAC, SEN naming the school on an EHCP and religion in some cases) is distance. Some secondaries also prioritise siblings.

Basically you can find out the furthest distance offered from local schools and assess if you fall into that. It's OK to put optimistic preferences down but make sure you also include a local banker - better to be offered a local poorer school than a poorer one far away. Don't think that if you only put down one school that the LA is obliged to offer you a place.

Do put the schools in your genuine order of preference, as you will be offered a place at the highest school you list that has a space.

I don't know London schools well but I presume that distances are smaller. But local to me, there is a v popular school that we are not in catchment for - but plenty of ppl list it in top space and some are lucky (I see DC in the uniform in streets near me). If you list it, you should also list the local acceptable secondary somewhere on your form as that is what you are most likely to be offered. Because if you don't list that then you will be offered a school no one wants, far away. Most likely. In my case anyway as the local acceptable one (actually just rated Good) is also over-subscribed.

Ignore head teachers who say at open days "if you don't list us first you won't get a place" - that's not how it works. Listing a far flung, hopeful school top does not disadvantage you from getting your local school if you list it - even if it is sixth. Unless you get a place at a higher pref obvs.

Does that make sense? Plenty of time tho and I gather the birth rate is falling in London. If you are going to move, make sure you are all settled and sorted by the end of year 5 at the latest.

(edited for typos)

Where in SE London? For example, Bexley has the 11+ still, and Bromley had the two Super selective schools.

Generally speaking... the closer you live to a school, the better chance you have of a place. But there are still other local quirks. Fair Banding for example would be one to check for.

Best thing is to check the admissions criteria of all your local schools.

If you want to move... it will need to be summer of y5/6 at the latest (earlier for some entrance exams)

Distance is usually one of the top admissions criteria. Each school will publish their admissions criteria and councils usually publish a list with the last offered distance for each year.

Councils publish the “cut off” criteria for previous years so you can see how close you need to live to a school to get in (or how religious you need to be). It’s probably a bit too early to know if you will want to look at grammars for your DC if they are only just in reception.

We have friends who bought houses next door to schools thinking they would get in and they don’t stand a chance due to religious entry criteria.

You need to be living in the house at the time you apply for the school which is normally October in year 6, so you may need to move house while your DC is still in primary school to be close to a particular secondary.

I don’t know much about se London but one extra thing to look for is that some schools allow a percentage of children in based on other criteria like “music aptitude” and they don’t apply distance criteria to this, so you may want to look at other schools for this.

@PuttingDownRoots we are in Blackheath. Do you know anything about secondaries in the area?

Thanks everyone

Data on last distance offered for Lewisham can be found here: https://lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/education/schools/school-admission/applying-to-start-secondary-school/last-year-s-number-of-applications-and-appeals-for-secondary-school-places

its straight line distance and you can use google maps to work it out for your house :)

Blackheath has stronger state primaries than secondaries by and large, so many look to take the 11+ and get a grammar place (albeit with more of a commute, but there are heaps of Blackheath children doing the same journeys) or go to a state primary then an independent secondary. If you’re at a state primary, there is no preparation for the 11+ taught in the classroom and most of the local children aiming for that pathway are tutored outside of school - through year 5 as a minimum but many through year 4 and some younger still. (Don’t get it in your head that the exam is end of year 6 as it’s actually right at the start for the grammars and in the middle for most of the independents.) Hence why there are now multiple businesses in Blackheath Village tutoring primary aged kids. (Some of the primaries do offer small group tutoring as an after school
club, with an outside provider who comes in. Worth a look as then you don’t need to do additional ferrying!)

Also worth knowing that the balance of nearby secondaries skews because there are multiple all-girls schools but boy schools are further away, so the coed schools don’t tend to be 50/50 since the girls have more options available without a big commute.

I would say with the state secondaries and the age of your DC that it’s worth waiting and watching for change. John Roan has recently had some significant changes and Thomas Tallis seems to be headed for change too. (There’s a recent thread in this same
section of MN with thoughts on those schools actually.) St Matthew’s could do with improvement to its reputation really… a lot could happen in the next five or six years, so keep and open mind and make friends with the class parents who have kids in older years, then you’ll get reports of how they are truly finding it when the siblings start year 7.

It's worth keeping in mind that perceptions of secondaries in this area can be quite outdated and some people have panicked views about London state secondaries that aren't necessarily the reality. We had heard terrible things about secondaries, but when we visited them with an open mind we were really impressed.

I also agree with the PP who said that schools change a lot. My impression is that a lot of schools who historically have been seen as not as good are changing and improving.