Can children move up sets in yrs 10 and 11

[Honest1980]

Just that really, can pupils be moved up sets in years 10 and 11? My daughter is in year 8 and set 4 for maths currently but is working really hard as she wants to be in set 3 (she was in year 7). I am just thinking if she does not move up in year 9 can she be moved up in years 10 or 11?

I know this is only if it is appropriate and they would not move her if not. Also been told by school that sometimes there is not enough places for children to move sets in any event. I wouldn't normally worry but sets 3 and 4 are the difference between sitting the higher or foundation paper at gcse.

You need to get in touch with the Head of Maths department and state your daughter's case. Copy in the Head of Form. You might need to send polite reminders. Now would be a good time to make a move as as there is always some movement and spare capacity at the end of academic year

Email the teacher, state clearly she wants to move from 4 to 3, and ask what needs to be done, what does she need to do, to facilitate that.

It depends on the school but my school has plenty of movement between sets in Y10 and even Y11. We certainly wouldn't decide in Y9 who will be sitting Foundation and who will be sitting higher. I've made some tier changes in the last few weeks!

It depends how the school structure their curriculum and prep for the exam. I would be asking the school this question and make an appointment to check back in with them about her progress and suitability for the higher set / higher paper.
Does she intend to take Maths to A-Level? She can still achieve a 5 on the foundation paper and those on the higher paper can still achieve as low as a 3. Weigh up the added pressure from being in a higher set for your daughter vs her wishes post GCSE - does she need a 4 or above?

Yes my kids school would often move them up or down in year 10/beginning of year 11. As pp above, sometimes it's only in the final few weeks before GCSEs that the teacher and student decide whether they'd be better off sitting higher or foundation papers.

My DD moved up sets for maths every year, even between y10 and y11. But set movement is very much dependent on schools.

Do they not have a 'crossover' set where they make individual decisions on whether to go for Higher/Foundation for each student?

Make sure she stays on top of y9 maths and revises well for Maths & Science end y9 exams as that will inform setting for y10.

This is very school specific? Have you seen much movement between sets so far - that will give you an indication. The fact you talk about "moving up in Year 9" as if it was a one and done thing at the start of the year makes me think that your school perhaps doesn't move children very often - in which case you may have to advocate for your child if you think she is in the wrong set.

DC's school move children at least every term and sometimes more frequently, and have a reshuffle following November Mocks in Year 11. Even then children can still move between Foundation/Higher papers in maths.

I would however focus less on sets and more on whether your daughter is being given the opportunity to meet her potential - if she's capable of sitting higher paper this shouldn't be dictated by set.

Also to add "moving up sets" sometimes just isn't possible. All the top sets at DC's school are "full" so for a child to move up, they need to, not only be working a good level, but be better suited to being in a higher set than the child they will supplant. So simply "moving to set 3" might not be an answer - it really is a case of understanding if the school will support your child to meet their potentila regardless of set.

If she performs beyond the foundation paper level then she would surely be put in for the higher paper for GCSE.

To be completely honest they have to justify moving someone down into the lower set to facilitate her moving up to the higher set. As a parent of two children who have been through secondary what I will say is the earlier she realises that not all teaching occurs in school or is the responsibility of the school the better.

She will have 6 weeks over summer where she can spend time chipping away at her foundation knowledge to secure that to build on. DCs' school had a maths log in where they could access lots of maths work. One girl got to year 11 and went back to the year 7 stuff and worked her way up to year 11 content and aced her exam. A lot of success comes down to attitude to learning and if she is keen, and it sounds like she is, I would talk to the head of maths to see if they can point her toward anything specific.

Ds's "flight path" based on his year 6 SATs would have put him at a 6 for maths for GCSE, he got a solid 9 because learning isn't linear and shouldn't be determined by what a child is achieving at 11. Best of luck to her.

Thanks all that is really helpful.

At the school they only move sets at the beginning of the year. This is based on how they do in the end of year assessments.

I spoke to her maths teacher earlier this year and also last month at parents evening but it was like getting blood out of a stone. She could not tell me where she thought my daughter was, which areas she needed to work on and if in her opinion she felt she could be in set 3. I might email the Head of Maths then.

I am not wanting my daughter to move up if she is not capable or if it would be too much for her. However her maths teacher wasn't able to tell me what she thought.

She is doing well in science, at parents evening they said she was excelling and will likely be moved up a set (she's in set 3) and she is in set 1 for English.

I just don't want her sitting foundation paper if she could sit higher paper. The degree she is hoping to do (I know its early but they have had a careers day and she has wanted to do this for a long time) they require minimum grade 6. My daughter therefore is keen to move up a set and says she is working really hard and feels she is doing well.

If school came back and said set 4 was appropriate that would be fine and I'd just tell my daughter to keep working hard.

Thank you that is really helpful. Yes my daughter has said this half term she is going to do more maths learning as she wants to do well in her maths assessments.

It's just if she stays in set 4 the highest you can get on the foundation paper is a 5. I'm not for a second saying she is capable of a 9 though!

Also some places in sets are taken by misbehaving pupils even if that set is inappropriate for them.

Thanks for your response. I will encourage her to work hard and in holidays and email Head of Year. Hopefully she will get moved if she is capable.

@Honest1980 don't underestimate what a child can do especially jumping from whatever grade she is on now to maybe a 7 plus. Ds took statistics as an option which they started in year 9. Due to some great teachers for all his subjects and a bit of belief in himself he ended up with an incredible end of year grade in maths that saw him move into top set. He started at the very bottom of that set obviously and again an incredible teacher gave him some confidence. By the time GCSEs rolled round he was in the top 3 in the class for maths but also in the top 3 students in the entire school. Considering his English lang "prediction" from SATs was a grade 4/5 and he actually got an 8 attitude goes a long way and is something they are assessed on for their report in his school.

Chipping away at work and realising that there are lots of resources online and getting "ahead" by just looking ahead can make a massive difference. I know she is only year 8 but in year 9 summer read the English lit books they will sit, know the plot, look at what the GCSE themes are and get the revision books. Learn about the poems they will cover, usually they study 15 poems.

Children usually have the same amount of time at home as they have in a school day. Ds was home by 3.30pm, bed was 10pm. That is a lot of time for both homework/independent study and down time. Weekends adds more hours in plus half terms and summer holidays. Little by little they can make a huge difference to their level of work.

Having been in a primary school for a decade lacking some basic maths knowledge can have a knock on effect in secondary. So going back over basic year 7 concepts may well help her. In my DC's school they had targeted revision in year 11 (probably further down the school too) so any paper they sat for maths they got a matrix for each question, green for you got it right, red for completely wrong and amber for some aspects were right ie formula correct but wrong final answer. Then it had specific links to I think Corbett maths for both the explanation and more questions to make sure you got it. I cannot fault the school and their methods.

The thing about maths is at this level it isn't subjective unlike English where someone decides if you have argued the point at a level 4 or 6 and whether you covered all the Assessment Objectives (AOs) etc. Maths is either right or wrong. Loads of resources online but talking to the teacher about her may help with specific feedback.

In my child's school they move sets all the way up to the last term of year 11. Check your sets though, at my child's school set 1 and 2 are at the same level. Same with sets 3 and 4 then 5 and 6.

Yes they can in my daughters school. As the all have the same content taught at the same time if that makes sense. So if they are moved set they won't have missed any content but might not have done it as in depth if they were in a lower set then moved up.

That's great advice. Your son has done really well. I'll show my daughter so it encourages her to do extra work in addition to school work.

I will email the head of maths to make them aware and hopefully they can be more helpful than her teacher in advising how to facilitate her moving up a set if/when she is ready.

I hope that my daughter's school do allow to move up sets. Sets 1-3 are classed as the higher sets and sit the higher paper whereas sets 4-6 are classed as lower set and sit the foundation paper.

It does not help that they have 2 teachers for maths on different days and one is a substitute teacher who tells the class maths is not something he normally teaches so unable to help them - just sets the questions!

I hope that my daughter's school do allow to move up sets. Sets 1-3 are classed as the higher sets and sit the higher paper whereas sets 4-6 are classed as lower set and sit the foundation paper.

I've seen so many posts about schools that do odd things that nothing would surprise me any more but ... my expectation of a decent school is that students sit the paper that is appropriate for them. So sets 1-3 take the higher paper because there are roughly 90 children capable and sets 4-6 sit foundation because that's the paper appropriate for them. Not "you're in set x, therefore you sit paper y", regardless of your actual capability.

I would say, if this is a standard comprehensive, that it's unusual for as many as half the year to be taking the higher paper, and suggests that the school might be pushing the borderline students towards higher as a general policy.