SE London: Thomas Tallis versus St Ursula's Convent School Greenwich

[Happyassalarry]

Hello SE London parents,
if you have a choice between these two schools for your daughter, which one would you choose and why?
We have chosen St Ursula's initially, but they had a bad OFSTED report in January this year, and many current parents are unhappy with the strikes and the management team.
Thomas Tallis seems to be very big, there is good and bad feedback from current parents.
Thanks in advance for your opinion!

what year is your dd in?

she will start year 7

Are those the only schools you're considering? If you're considering an all girls school is Eltham Hill an option?

The staff issue at St Ursula's that caused the strikes has been resolved so hopefully calmer times are on their way.

Thanks for your post. Do you have any more details about what is happenning at St Ursula's at the moment? We are on the waiting list for Eltham Hill, but unlikely to get a place given our position. However, for Tallis we are on the top of the waiting list, but I'm asking myself if it is really better than St. Ursula's, especially as the headteacher at Thomas Tallis is apparently going to change.

@Happyassalarry I don't know a massive amount, it's just a sort of local school so I was following the story a little. I saw that the teacher they had suspended was deemed to have no case to answer at the hearing. So that ought to mean an end to the strikes at least. It can't have done much for morale though and who knows what happens with senior leadership now.

Is Tallis changing Head teacher as well? That can be a tricky time but they've just had an Ofsted and they've been well thought of for a long time. I know people have different views, but I think you're going to get that at any properly comprehensive school.

isn't it a bit late to be thinking like this?

you must have looked round both schools before applying and have chosen Ursula's over Tallis?

The school hasn't suddenly fundamentally changed?

It had OFSTED outstanding when we applied, and in the meantime it has been inspected again and rated Requires Improvement - so this is a big change indeed. The circumstances have changes between October and now.

@Happyassalarry have you read the Ofsted though? Are there things which directly impact how you as a family view the school?

The Ofsted rating was from 2015, so presumably you didn't base your choice solely on that?

I totally understand that this feels like a huge change for you, as you might have decided not to apply, or at any rate not to make it a top choice, if you'd had the current Ofsted rating before you applied. However, what you have to bear in mind is that many Ofsted reports are years and years out of date. The Outstanding rating could have been awarded a decade ago. This will apply to all schools, not just St Ursula's. Presumably you got a good feeling about the place when visiting in the autumn. How did you feel about it compared to TT, assuming you visited there as well?

We are a long, long way past the secondary school stage (children now in their 30s!) but the first thing that struck me from your OP title was that there could hardly be a greater contrast between St Ursula's and Thomas Tallis.

All girls vs mixed
Catholic vs secular
Small vs large
11-16 vs 11-18 (assuming this hasn't changed in recent years - a neighbour's daughter went to St Ursula's a long time ago and had to move for the sixth form)

I appreciate at this point that you won't have much choice but would you and your daughter be happy with such a very different school?

To reply to the last post, we liked the small size of St Ursula's, decent GCSE results, good discipline and a Catholic athos. However, from the OFSTED report it transpires that there are problems with disruptive behaviour. Also the teachers were on strike 20 days this academic year! And even if the issue seems now resolved, there seems to be a bad vibe between the teachers and the management, which could affect the children too

@Happyassalarry the behaviour referenced in the Ofsted report doesn't sound dreadful, to be honest. They didn't pick up bullying as an issue and talk about occasional low level disruption. I would think that they could pull that back very quickly, especially if some stability returns now.

I’d steer clear of Tallis. We know loads of families who have pulled children out (us included) due to very disruptive behaviour and poor results. The progress
of pupils is terrible, one of the worst
in the borough. https://www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=203&geographic=la&for=secondary

I have very close knowledge of both schools and would not send a daughter to either. If I had absolutely no choice I would go for Tallis (while having her on the waiting list for somewhere else - John Roan or Lee academy - or cobbling together £ for Blackheath high or Colfes)

And op you are spot on about the relations between teachers and management. To judge for yourself about behaviour, stand outside the school at the end of the school day (it is absolute chaos : at least at Tallis the police vans which are often there keep it in check)

Thanks for your insights - I would be very interested why you would prefer 1. Joan Roan 2. Tallis and 3. St Ursula. We don't stand a chance for Leigh academy location-wise. I heard quite a lot of negative feedback about Joan Roan.

I have not witnessed bad behaviour from St. Ursula's students... ibwould be curious to know why you think that Joan Roan is better

My son is in year 7 at Tallis. I dont have a bad word to say about it. Great pastoral care and organisation. Its a huge school but they get used to it quickly.

things change quickly around here and in the decades I’ve lived in the area I’ve seen schools come in and out of favour.

My impressions are based on talking to both friends who are teachers and students (eg neighbours / babysitters / offspring of friends) at all three schools. I have teenage daughters so have always taken a keen interest. But for every bad experience someone will have had a good one.

The same goes for private schools; I can’t think of a single private school in a 5 mile radius that I haven’t heard someone complain about. At the end of the day it depends on the temperament of your child, what kind of peer group they fall in with, and an element of luck.

tallis is anarchy. the animals are well and truly in charge of the zoo.

I always believed every single child in the UK had an opportunity to be educated if they chose to be. Then I spent a couple of weeks at Thomas Tallis, and changed my mind completely. It is the worst school I have ever seen.

They ger excellent sixth form results- because they chuck out all their year 11s and refuse to take them back

Thanks for your frank response! Could you please tell a bit more about your experience? Were you a teacher or a parent in Tallis?

Why would you not send your daughter to St Ursula's and preger John Roan if you don't mind me asking?

I will pm you

Dh interviewed for a job at Tallis. He said the class he taught for interview couldn't sit still and listen even with SLT in the room. He did not take the job. Friend's son came through there with not one GCSE. Another friend quit teacher training there and perused another career. He'd have been a fabulous teacher

We had a choice between John Roan and Tallis a couple years ago and went with JR for a few reasons, mainly that Tallis is just absolutely enormous (is it still more than 2000 students?) and seemed so chaotic and sort of uninspiring.
JR had a tough time a few years back but became an academy and now in this year's Ofsted were rated Good, which is huge progress. They have a very inclusive ethos and have cracked down on bullying. They have great activities, my son's year got to see As You Like It at the Globe for free, they do lots of field trips, you can do a GCSE in Astronomy at the Royal Observatory.
It is though very very strict. Detentions for uniform violations, lots of rules. It does reduce disruptive behaviour a lot but it can be hard on the kids.
But they've been great whenever my son needed some extra help, and my son's teachers are almost all very enthusiastic and passionate about what they're doing.

I don't know anything about St Ursula, it sounds nice, but I have no regrets picking JR over Tallis.