13 plus entry or 11 plus? Prep or straight to secondary

[Kirti123]

Hello all we are looking at places for secondary school. Currently we are in a state church school about to enter year 5. Wondered whether we should consider going to a prep school until 13 but didn’t know how easy it is to get into schools in Sw london (around Wimbledon) at 13 anymore as heard that many moving to going at 11 instead. Not sure whether to move schools now to one that may take our son all the way through to sixth form, keep him where he is and consider tutoring or go to a prep and then move at 13 when he may have developed academically a bit more. Think we still have to do 11 plus though even if 13 plus entry but two years in private school may assist with this rather than staying until year 6 in current school. Any ideas appreciated. Thank you

Does the current school not indicate whether your child is even suitable for 11 plus or selective schools? If not a good 11+ tutor can assess whether child is likely to be a good candidate.

Grammar schools here get 10x applications for each space. So realistically you need to be in the top 10% of the class for both Maths and English in the 11+.

NO child wants to change school at the age of 13. I can’t think of a worse age to do that.

State schools don't seem to be helpful at all when it comes to the 11+ At least not our school, nor ones I have heard about from others.

But a tutor would be helpful to give an idea. I think a good start would be if your dc is working at GD level.

I think it makes most sense to do 11+ We are same position, but the year ahead. If doing 13+ bought you more time to mature and be prepared that would make sense....but you still have to take the exam year 6....so you mine as well do 11+ Plus it is the normal entry time for state school dc. If you dc wants to go to a more academic school, they would have to approve the prep school your dc goes to for entering the 13+ So they are not behind when entering at 13.

My DS is August born (and missed most of Y5 & 6 in lockdown) so doing Y7 and 8 in his prep school was really great for him. It gave him time to mature in a more child-like environment. There is a lot to be said for those two years at prep school for children who need a more supportive environment for a bit longer.

However, he was always going to go to a senior school that has its only intake at 13. Do you have any senior schools in mind that are 13-18 only?

Thank you for your reply. I didn’t realise the approval of the prep point and agree that the stress of 11 plus would rather just one school move not another on top. Thanks for your insights that really helpful! 😀

Thanks yes there are a few that look good for 13 plus but our favourite (assuming he gets in) only has a very small number of 13 plus spaces so that would probably rule that school out for us and a number of the 13 plus options are a bit of a distance away. I am just wondering if he needs some extra help in the last two years 5 and 6 so he can catch up with private school pupils. Although we can have a tutor for a bit I don’t know if that’s enough to get him at a level that would help him enough with 11 plus and be at the right level if joining a private school and so thought the two years in a prep before the 11 plus may help him to more up to speed so he does well enough then to either move at 11 plus (which I think a number of the preps may not fully prepare you for where they go up to 13) or do the 13 plus pre test. It’s all a bit of a minefield. Where I grew up there were just two comps and a private school so hardly any of these confusing and such competitive options!😬

Thank you so much - no they haven’t given much indication yet and this help only comes it seems at the end of year 5 as they assume they won’t move before year 6. We had a consultation and they did indicate that with some tutoring he could get in to many of the well regarded private schools but that grammar and the top schools may be aspirational and we shouldn’t underestimate how hard they may be so I don’t think that this would really be a consideration as not a top of the class kid- bright but struggles a bit with some areas and needs a bit more nurturing so don’t think a hot house or very academic place the right option but still want him to try for a decent rounded school so just looking at the best options. They still are very competitive and will require the 11+ or their own similar entrance exams. Thanks for your insights and the point that no child wants to move at 13. I don’t have an older child so interested to hear about this. I imagine that in many schools where children have been there since 11 that a lot of friendships and routines have been settled. Thanks

Yes agreed - I think they just assume you will go to the next local state school which don’t offer the same sport and extra curricular things that my son really loves and gives him confidence. We have a tutor but think we may need to increase the sessions - he doesn’t really like to do any extra work though to practice. He gets there in the end- everyone I speak to says this is typical of boys - I just find it quite different as I studied loads but somehow he manages To pull it out the bag and do reasonably well but maybe not top marks! We have paid for a consultant so waiting to hear back on that but wanted to hear from others about their thoughts and experience as it all helps to form the right decision (as far as we can make one!) x

You could also get him to do workbooks and atom to help prep alongside the tutor. Also, get him to reading more.

Thanks I haven’t heard of atom so will check that out. He reads quite a bit but need to increase the non football ones!😝

Do you meat a specific local state school next to you? There are state schools that are obsessed about sports with the wide choice of activities

Hello yes the ones close that we would most likely get into do not have much in the way of playing or sport facilities and concentrate on maths science or music more.

DD went to prep til 13 and then moved to a senior school which was difficult as the girls are cliquey. It seems an easier transition for boys at 13 than girls.
DS1 had a sprint of 6 months tutoring to get into grammar school. He enjoyed the tutoring. Some of the kids in his tutoring had been tutored for 3 years i.e. since year 2 or 3 and had two sessions a week! And in London it will be extremely competitive. A friend of ours their child applied in London and there were 25 applicants for every place. Now probably many of them applied for more than 1 grammar school so maybe 12 applicants per place per school. No slam dunk to get in and she didn't make it.
Our son made it but more like 9 applicants per place.
I would get your child assessed asap to see where he sits. As said you need to be top 10% to have a good chance.
Good luck!

Thank you so much for your reply. Yes I think from all messages I am veering towards either a move somewhere that if he gets in guarantees entry to secondary and will look at tutoring and atom to fill the gaps identified in the assessment and have faith that my son will be ok and will Get into where he is meant to! Will aim in the applications more of the mid range but may put in one aspirational application just in case! Thanks for your message!☺️

Also, you can do a free trial for Atom and get him to do mocks to see where he sits amongst the cohort. They compare the mock you took to others that took the same and it is standardized to the age when you took it. Be aware, most don't score well the first try, but it will go up.

And I always think try for at least one aspirational stretch school.....esp when coming from state. A lot of people will say things to scare you off (that school is soooo academic, it is impossible to get into et)....but someone has to get in and who knows....it might be your dc. I have experience w my eldest for the 11+ and she got in to the competitive schools she applied to. Now I am doing it for my ds....but have the same fears that it is impossible to get in etc (as people say the same things!).

You sound realistic about your child’s attainment which is good as lots of parents let their aspirations overshadow reality and try to shoehorn their kids into grammar.

case study: a friend of mine has two smart kids. The oldest one just about passed 11+ and got entry to grammar school. Spent the entire senior school years as bottom of the class as the school expects perfection in ALL subjects not just maths and English but also extracurricular. They struggled and muddled through and the stress was intense.
The other child did great in the 11+ but did not get into grammar. Instead went to a good local comp, spent the entire senior school years In the highest sets, had a rounded extracurricular life and thrived.
Guess who got the best A level results.

Age 13 is year 9. Girls in year 9 are largely horrible individuals and boys become Kevin the Teenager zombies as their frontal lobe changes. This is full on the worst puberty year of them all and for some reason our education system has decided this is a great time to turn up the academic volume and ask them to make life defining decisions about GCSE choices. It is the year they most need and least want their parents and peers are incredibly important to them. Not a great time to change schools.

We're in a similar-ish boat to you, our son is at state primary (Y5) and we'd decided to send him to independent for secondary. Having looked round a number of schools we decided that only the one in our home town would be a good fit for him. We thought a local prep in the next town may be a good back-up option but when we looked around it we actually loved it! I totally agree with what PPs have said, there are big advantages to having another two years before going to secondary school (where your little boy will be educated in the same place as 18 year old men!!).

However, in the end we're still keeping it as a backup option. Transport logistics to the prep would have been a bit of a pain, and we weren't keen on him moving schools twice in two years. So we're doing tutoring and Atom for the secondary (Atom £30 discount code if you're interested: lezphgSg). But happy with the prep for backup.

Look at the entry points and admission numbers for the schools you are interested in. Many accept 3x more children at 13+ than they do 11+ and at 13+ there is less competition because there are less state school children applying.