Tiffin boys and rugby

[GranCanaria37]

How big is rugby at Tiffin boys please? Thanks

From what the school says about it on its website, pretty big?

If contact rugby is your concern it’s worth asking the school - we are hoping to send our son to a “rugby school”, but it confirmed contact rugby is never obligatory and there’s always an option to do touch rugby (and a number of competitive touch rugby teams).

Their Sevens teams this year were unbelievably good! Astonishing to be that bright, that fit and that skillful!

Their other official "performance sports" are cricket and (as a very recent addition) football.

They've also just introduced a sport aptitude criterion to their admissions policy for 2025.

It’s big as in it’s a focus sport but if you’re totally uninterested that’s fine, you will do a bit of touch at Friday games and that’s it. If you’re into it you can do extra practice sessions in the week.

Two years ago, I attended an Open Day at Tiffin Boys and was given a tour by a Year 7 student. I inquired about the school's sports programs, and my little guide provided me with a well-informed response: "Indeed, we offer a wide range of sports. However, Tiffin Boys is not primarily a sports-focused school compared to other state schools. In fact, there is a far more emphasis on the arts and drama, and, above all, a strong focus on academic excellence.

If you have a very sporty boy I would look at Christ's School in Richmond Borough. It is in top 2% in the country when it comes to achievements at sports. They have a huge emphasis on extra-curricular sport, won recently the country basketball competition. The rugby team is very strong. Tiffin are nowhere near there.

Sorry, but your Year 7 guide was talking rubbish. 😁

@heydood I would hope that year 7 would know pretty well the school at the end of the year ( the tour was in July) but I will not argue with it as I am not an insider. Also, it is all a matter of perspective. How do they compare with other state schools? Are they regular top winners of any national sports competitions?

There's plenty of info about Tiffin sport on their website.

The new head has introduced a sport aptitude test for Y7 entry and added football as a performance sport (in addition to cricket and rugby), so it's clearly a priority.

The reason Christs has a top basketball team is because local club Richmond Knights has a training base there. It's one of the top basketball clubs in the country and it also has a training base at Waldegrave.
Several children from Christs' basketball teams are on the Knights top teams, so it's not surprising the school has a strong squad, but children from just about every secondary school in the borough train with Knights too. They run after-school clubs for most schools and siphon the best players into their competitive teams which train at Christs and Waldegrave in the evenings.

I do think music is the big thing at Tiffins. There’s constant recitals, singalongs, performances etc, certainly far beyond what my friends kids seem to be doing. DS is completely non musical so I don’t know masses about it but we are always being invited to things. The invitation to join the Choir came before they even started.

@heydood
What do you mean by sport aptitude test for Y7? There is no sports exam to get to Tiffin Boys. And almost every school in the neighbouring Richmond borough on the other side of the river has sports sets in secondary school and the kids are assigned basing on the tests in Y7. I asked during open day because I have a child with dispraxia and I don't want him to be bullied by the supersporty athletes.

Christ's school has not only achievement at basketball. The school is obsessed about sports and have great teams in numerous sport disciplines.

"What do you mean by sport aptitude test for Y7? There is no sports exam to get to Tiffin Boys"

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn Yes there is, from 2025 onwards. See paragraph 9: https://www.tiffinschool.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/4e-Admissions-Policy-2025-25_Feb_24-WITH-aptitude-tests.pdf

There's a music aptitude test too. Sport and music are equally their thing.
(I'm a current parent)

Poor kids. Most of them are already hothoused to get in. Now the overambitious parents will force them to do sports and music on the top of 11+ madness 😱😂

That new head must have changed the school since I visited it.

I think the best new head could do is to merge it Tiffin Girls.

Actually, I thought the opposite. The naturally sporty (or musical) kids will be under less pressure for the academic exam. Besides, many of them already do sport and music.

It's an aptitude test, not an ability test, so they don't have to excel at any particular sport outside of school, just demonstrate aptitude to do well. I expect it will test generic sport skills such as speed, agility, endurance and focus.

Many of them do but it doesn't mean that they got in because they are music stars or sport achievers at a national level. The purpose of grammar schools was to nurture children with above-average academic ability. With the addition of music and sports tests, they will now admit students with exceptional talents in these areas who previously would not have been accepted. These students' musical or sporting abilities earn them enough additional points to gain admission, as if it were a music or sports school. Consequently, many academically excellent students do not get in because top athletes and musicians are admitted instead.

Since Ofsted downgraded Tiffin for not providing Outstanding teaching, the school has made several unusual changes. A bit desperate moves. They hired a marketing executive to boost their image and now conduct sports and music tests similar to private schools.

I have never considered Tiffin for my very academically capable son, and he did not take the tests. I believe single-sex schools are an outdated concept that does not positively influence social skills.

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn it sounds like you've got a big chip on your shoulder.

They haven't hired a marketing person. They don't need to because they're hugely oversubscribed. If you're talking about their new school business manager (with the fancier job title) most big secondary schools have one of those. They manage the finances and line-manage the support staff.

They do have a new head, who came from RGS Guildford. That's a private school, so he's bound to have a few different ideas. He's only been there a few months, so I'm reserving judgement.

Fwiw, I didn't choose it for my son either. My daughter chose it for sixth form. But the Tiffin boys I've met at school events and at her parties all seem very intelligent/sporty/musical in various combinations, despite having been there since year 7. I'm sure there are some heads-down tutored-to-within-an-inch-of-their-lives types too, but I haven't met them.

Yes they did employ marketing communication manager and you simply are not aware of it. I am 100 percent very sure of it. Just ask at the school who set up the school presence on LinkedIn last year. You will be surprised. No, this is not a business manager. The advertisment when active was on Totaljobs (pic)

But the Tiffin boys I've met at school events and at her parties all seem very intelligent/sporty/musical in various combinations, despite having been there since year 7.

I appreciate it but what has that got to do with what I written about new admission process above? Totally irrelevant. The new cohort from 2025 will not be just sporty and musical, they will be exceeding in music and sports because it is planned to be entrance criteria and not just " musical" as it is now. And logic suggests that musical genius or a sport genius may need much less points at 11+ , bare exam pass. As I said, many talented academically kids with more points will not get in .
It reminds me of the US universities where sport geniuses get scholarships even if they are not academically that bright.

And btw I have no reason to have chip on my shoulder with regards to Tiffin school, please stop projecting upon me some naive assumptions.

The entrance exams to grammar schools are about speed and detail. Several kids I know that are at that school are from a very specific background hothoused for 2 years prior to 11+. Hours of Atom learning plus tutoring every day.

It’s only going to affect 18 boys, or 10% of the cohort. I don’t think the landscape of the school will significantly change to where they are all idiotic but musical and sporting geniuses (who have also been hothoused and tutored half to death - your post suggests you think all of these things will become more common which seems unlikely).
The disdain is really dripping from your posts - you obviously didn’t think much of the school when you visited but it’s just an educational establishment for boys like any other? Why so scathing?

Wilson’s do the same aptitude tests and it doesn’t seem to be doing them any harm.

Absolutely, agree. People get so tribal about schools. Why do they feel the need to pull down other schools and the choices other parents make. Interesting how she doesn't think she has a chip on her shoulder.

@TiberiusFlam

The disdain is really dripping from your posts

Every school has its strengths and weaknesses; there are no perfect institutions. I approach all schools with the same logical perspective.

No, I do not feel any disdain, and anyone who reads my post carefully will see that. I am simply not an uncritical thinker; I am simply unconvinced by the 2025 changes in admission criteria, which I find debatable.
Additionally, I question the decision to hire a marketing communications manager instead of focusing on improving teaching, particularly in English and other languages.
Academically talented students deserve the best possible instruction, and teaching should meet their level of requirements. And btw this is not only about Tiffin Boys. The same story was with Sutton Grammar.
Tiffin Girls is a different story and I have no idea why Tiffin Boys should be assumed to be as Tiffin Girls is

The idea that most children easily gain admission to super-selective grammar schools without intensive preparation and tutoring is simply misinformed. This is not county grammar with the acceptance of 25 percent. This is super super selective. Perhaps only a handful do so. In Kingston, tutoring centers and one-on-one tutoring for the 11+ exams are thriving businesses. I also studied with people who kept saying that they had hardly studied to the exam where in fact they were drilling it.

Sometimes I feel as though I am conversing with school employees or a particular school devotees. Especially this is the case in discussions about a specific private schools

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn You may think you're a critical thinker, but your actually patronising. But then sadly, that seem to be a thing on MN.

do they feel the need to pull down other schools and the choices other parents make.
I absolutely do not disparage the choices of other parents, nor have I ever stated that Tiffin Boys School is a poor option. I have merely expressed my opinion regarding certain changes and highlighted what factors were important to me.I believe that intelligent individuals are capable of critical thinking and are not merely agreeable yes-men. It is surprising to me that people react so strongly to anything other than positive comments. The purpose of forums is to honestly share our feelings and engage in thoughtful discourse, not just offer uncritical praise. How come people state openly issues they had with any comprehensive schools and any slightest concern about grammar schools is a drama?

If we want to raise intelligent and innovative thinkers, we must cultivate their ability to judge and think critically and independently, rather than simply adhering to all present narratives.

I cannot speak about mentioned Wilson school as I don't know anybody who attends it ( too far).

You are allowed to think so but for me it is a fallacy because I am not addressing anybody here personally. Please do not read me or block me. And read only praising comments.

Well I bow to your greater (and clearly a tad obsessive) knowledge. 😁

It was probably a temporary appointment. Since the new head arrived, they've launched a new website (which was well overdue - the old one didn't even render on mobile phones) and re-energised their social media accounts, to bring them into line with what most other schools have, and re-launched the weekly newsletter (which is a bit dull and repetitive, but much better than the old half-termly one and does the job of reminding parents about upcoming dates, etc). Seems like a job well done. It's pretty common for schools to hire someone in to do this sort of thing.

Well I bow to your greater (and clearly a tad obsessive) knowledge. 😁

I welcome all relevant arguments but there is no need for ad hominem arguments. I hope they are teaching in Tiffin to stick to the topic. I am simply stating my opinion. I believe I can.

It was probably a temporary appointment.
Please check the facts by asking the school before making any assumptions. The job wasn't advertised as a temporary assignment.