GCSEs - music or drama..?

[MusicOrDrama]

DD has to choose an option now at the end of year 8, which they will continue to GCSE. For her, it boils down to the choice between music and drama, they can't do both. She is struggling to choose. I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into GCSE music or drama as subjects?

She is naturally academic and is on course for some great results. She does both music and drama out of school. So, she is set up to do well with either but obviously wants the best mark she can get too!

School have suggested an instrument at grade 2-3 will allow them to access the performance element and the rest. But what sort of grade are we talking to access the top few GCSE grades? She is currently having a break from piano grade exams to just enjoy playing while settling with a new teacher and working her way through early theory grades. She's likely to start preparing for grade 4 soon. She's a good but not exceptional musician who practices but probably not as much as she should. Is this likely to be enough, or is she going to struggle?

Drama she loves and is going to do her first LAMDA exam this year with her drama class run by her dance school (she does a lot more dancing than drama!). She's a confident performer. I have read that drama as a subject is a lot more than that though, and can be quite hard going?

Anyway, any advice or opinions would be very welcome! I'm trying to get a better sense of what they both actually entail and which she's likely to do best in to help her decide, as I'm getting a bit bored of "I don't knoooow" and "it's not fair they make us chooose"! 😆

DD2 plays and has private lessons in the violin and the piano but decided she wants to sing as the performance element (she's been singing in choirs for years). She realised very early in Y10 she needs lessons for that as well so we're now also paying for singing lessons via the school. She thinks the composition element in particular would be very hard to do if you a) couldn't read music and b) hadn't played in an ensemble and knew how music was put together.

I'd absolutely agree it would be virtually impossible to get a good grade in music without music tutoring either paid for via the school service or privately. TBF, Music is not the only subject this is true for, e.g. for PE you need to do a team sport and an individual sport, everyone at my kids school who does it has been doing sports clubs outside school for years.

Can't comment on drama, but I can say this: music is much less coursework heavy than art (DD1 did art).

DD loves musical theatre, has been in a class with an element of vocal coaching for years, and performs enthusiastically and confidently whenever she gets the chance at school or elsewhere, which I love about her and I'm as proud as I am baffled as to where she gets her confidence from. However, I can report from long and indulgent experience that I don't think relying on singing for music GCSE would work well for all students... 😆

I just read that back and maybe it sounded like I was implying others in her class aren't good singers, sorry. Nope, it's DD who is a bit vocally challenged 😆 She makes up for it a bit in performance and enthusiasm though I think! But if she does take music GCSE, piano it is!

@MusicOrDrama
I'm not up to date with current specifications, but my DDs both did drama and both got full marks in the performance element. The reason for this was the brilliant drama department and teaching they received. They also were with DC who took it seriously. Unfortunately many don't and mess about. DN didn't do well but he was the nuisance in chief.

My DDs had both done drama productions in school and DD1 did musical theatre exams (grade 8 in the end) and LAMDA and music theory exams. They both really enjoyed drama GCSE and DD1 chose it over music. My view is that drama must be well taught and other dc messing about is a worry.

DD1 is now a barrister and her drama has been useful! Part of the development available to barristers is coaching to help with speaking to an audience. DD is pleased she has the confidence to take this aspect of the work in her stride but others found public speaking very intimidating. So a huge benefit of drama is confident public speaking. - except DD2 did "mime"! Still have to do it in front of an audience though!

Music teacher here and as usual on MN, some inaccuracies.

All GCSE Music specifications have the same allocations between performing, composing and appraising: 30%, 30%, 40%. Blame Gove for this.

Different specifications have different expectations for accessing top marks. My school does Eduqas and we advise performing pieces of grade 4 standard in order that you can access the highest marks. That doesn't mean you need to take the grade exam, just perform it perfectly. You also need an ensemble piece; if I was teaching your DD, I would advise a vocal duet from a musical, the lower part of a piano duet, or her accompanying another student or teacher. Composing requires 2 complete pieces, one of which is to a brief set by the exam board in September of y11.

Different boards have gone in different directions with the appraising (listening) paper. Edexcel have 12 set works to learn. Eduqas has only 2, then lots of application of knowledge to unfamiliar music.

You don't need to have any grades on any instruments and you can switch between them if you want to (my DD did her solo on the sax and a cello duet with her teacher for the ensemble many moons ago).

Having had my DDs take one each, the main difference for me between Drama and Music is that Music is entirely within the control of the student themselves. They need to learn the repertoire and produce the compositions for the NEA. In Drama, there is more collaboration needed as they work in groups. Talking to one of my y10s, they are really struggling with a weak student in their group and this is causing a lot of stress. If your DD is already doing LAMDA qualifications, check out how many UCAS points her next ones are worth. If this is higher than a GCSE, don't waste her time taking Drama.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I think in terms of qualifications, doesn’t grade 5 in an instrument plus grade 5 theory count for pretty much the same as a gcse? Worth checking potential destinations for sixth form - will the ones they want to go to let them do a music-based course post-16 with grade 5 instrument + theory, or is the reqt definitely the music gcse? Certainly on UCAS forms, instrument grades (I think at grade 7 &8, and maybe theory grades too) count as UCAS points - but looking at the RG-type unis, they go by grades rather than points.

Yes & no Stoufer. Some 6th forms will accept Grade 5 theory and practical as an indication that a child is suitable for music A level however in many cases that child will have little preparation for the analysis of set works and composition.

If your DD is already doing LAMDA qualifications, check out how many UCAS points her next ones are worth. If this is higher than a GCSE, don't waste her time taking Drama.

That rather suggests there are no benefits to taking GCSE drama beyond supporting UCAS application? (And as a music teacher, I'm surprised you don't know that GCSEs do not have UCAS points).

My DD loved drama for the "break" from her more academic qualifications; she relished the different perspective to English on dramatic plays/texts and she enjoyed working with students that she didn't otherwise come across.
(Her school let them pick their own groups for the performance pieces with some guidance from the teacher that sounds like he was trying to get similar standard students together. Worth OP finding out how her DD's school does this).

You have misunderstood me. Of course I know that GCSEs don't carry UCAS points.

My point was that if the OP's DD had a high grade LAMDA award already, there was no need in taking a GCSE in Drama that was worth less, ie nothing whereas she did not have an equivalent in her Music.

Always worth looking at the grades attained in both subjects at the school - I hadn’t realised until recently that Music grades were lower than for most subjects at my son’s school. He is taking his GCSE Music now and got full marks for his solo performance for a piece around grade 5 standard, but dropped marks in the ensemble part, then the composition element at his school was completed on some very frustrating software and he’s dropped marks there too. He tells me you don’t need to be musical for the appraising part. He’s enjoyed taking it at GCSE as it’s quite a sociable, fun GCSE, but to me as an an observer the composition element software and marking scheme are a bit odd nowadays and your ensemble marks are influenced by the people in your group (which I think is the same for drama performance).

DD did GCSE music last year (she and a couple of others got 9's; most had 8's).

Her school wanted all pupils to have grade 5 Theory. I think there were 3 who "sang" as their instrument (though I think they all played an instrument competently). Most of the instrumentalists had either taken or were due to sit grade 8, but were advised to play a grade 5 pieces and play it perfectly (over-emphasising 'communication' with accompanist/ensemble). I seem to remember that it was okay for ensemble performance to have players not sitting GCSE (possibly even teachers). The "performance" section made for "easy" marks for her cohort.

Without a strong music department, with a firm understanding of the syllabus and marking scheme, I suspect that it is easy to lose marks.

When my eldest did music gcse they were told there was no more difficulty benefit above grade 5.

I will say that music is regarded as more rigorous than drama which is viewed as a bit of a soft subject

That's total rubbish - they are both equally respected GCSEs.

I suggest you haven't looked at the requirements of GCSE Drama recently, if you think it's a soft subject - the writing element (for example) is akin to that required for English Literature.

Yes to this

Both of mine did both at GCSE. TBH they found the drama quite academic - a lot of learning mark schemes etc although they enjoyed the practical and trips to the theatre. They both found music easy as they had Grade 8s and had taken Grade 5 theory in year 6. The composition element took a bit of time. One did a Grade 5 piece for the practical and the other regurgitated a Grade 6 piece they loved as it was easier than finding something new to play. If your DD is going to be about Grade 4 standard anyway then it might be worth exploring with the piano teacher if there is one of the less technically demanding Grade 5 pieces they could try out (standards are a bit variable so one piece might be quite easy notewise but require a bit more musicality to play).

DOes the school have a lot of pretty accomplished musicians with high grades and Grade 5 theory as then it might be demoralising for someone who ends up struggling a bit to keep up? Whereas if your DD is on a par with the group that wouldn't be a issue. If the former and she does decide to do music then she might like to look at some Grade 5 theory over the summer holidays?

@Malbecfan

Very few unis offer on UCAS points taking LAMDA points into account. Or dance or music exams. Usually UCAS points come from 3 A levels. So the benefits of drama via LAMDA isn't UCAS points. Or DDs would have had loads! The huge benefit of drama is confidence building but work ethic of others and teaching quality must be taken into account.

The indecision rumbles on.... She's got until Monday. I think at 12, it's really hard to imagine how to best spend your time at 15-16 in yr11, and really hard to weigh up the pros and cons. I don't want to sway her, but I feel like I could..! Maybe by Sunday morning I'll start telling her what I think she should do (once I've worked that out!) and see what happens.

Good points, thanks all 😊

"DOes the school have a lot of pretty accomplished musicians with high grades and Grade 5 theory as then it might be demoralising for someone who ends up struggling a bit to keep up? Whereas if your DD is on a par with the group that wouldn't be a issue. If the former and she does decide to do music then she might like to look at some Grade 5 theory over the summer holidays?"

Obviously she doesn't know everyone it's a big school, but I don't think there are lots of high grade musicians. There are other schools in the area with better reputations for traditional music grades and playing, orchestras etc, which I imagine absorbs a lot of those types. There are some talented kids I've seen playing in bands/singing (they've got a particularly fabulous yet tiny drummer in year 8 for example!). I think she would fit ok in terms of ability.

Good point about theory grades though. She is currently nearly finished working through grade 2 at 5 mins a time with her teacher and obvs it's pretty easy. She could definitely step this up to work through the higher grades though.

Other possibly relevant info - she long ago outstripped my musical ability and knowledge. BUT not DH's who rattled through all of the practical and theory grades by mid secondary and aced his GCSE and A level. So, she wouldn't be without help if she needs it.

Exam boards - AQA for music, Eduqas for drama.

I don't know the LAMDA level, it is in the early stages of being arranged this year and she didn't do the last lot they did (timetable reasons).

She's a great writer and I can see she'd enjoy that analytical element and the pure performance, but I am getting more worried about the wild card "group" element to drama.

Good point about looking at previous results. I've yet to find them on the school website, will they be published anywhere or am I going to have to ask..?

Some schools publish grades attained for each subject but others don't. Schools might put them under all sorts of headings! If you cannot find them I would ask. What's the standard of school plays? Do they have a stage, lighting and enthusiastic drama teachers? If they get decent results and have a decent school play, it's probably ok. Can't dd guess who might do drama.

Is she choosing for y9? 3 year GCSE?

DD1 did music and drama at GCSE, getting a grade 9 in both. As a grade 8 musician (but not a pianist) she found the writing down of the composition the hardest element but enjoyed the group she was with. Her drama grade 9 was because she is an excellent, analytical writer. She didn't enjoy drama half as much as she'd hoped to because the teacher was quite flakey and there were a number of students who had picked it as they felt it would be easy.

I've asked both departments about results - hopefully I'll get a reply today.

School plays are ok, tend to be musicals obviously. There are some good kids at the mercy of a very low budget, and the usual variable singing abilities. The drama lead is a very enthusiastic MT nut 😄

Any of the Music/drama "set" who have declared have gone for music or other subjects so far but most are still undecided or at least DD doesn't know.

Yes, choosing for yr9. I don't know if they start GSCE content before yr10, but it will be fixed as one of their subjects once they choose.

@MusicOrDrama

I thought Ofsted had discouraged 3 year GCSEs as a broad curriculum is only studied for 2 years and produces this dilemma for 12 year olds.

Good teaching is vital. The teachers need to be very clear what is required and not sell it as an easy option. To be honest, music is rarely taken by dc who are messing about. Musicians tend to be quite bright I've found and want to do well. Has she not got any friends at all she can ask about drama? If there's no great depth of drama talent, I might have some concerns.

At my DDs school, drama was exceptionally strong and high expectations were the norm. DDs were in Oh What a Lovely War, Daisy Pulls it Off, Animal Farm, Great Expectations, Cabaret, House drama competitions every year and numerous music performances. Therefore the culture was very strong.

@TizerorFizz I have heard too that Ofsted are not keen on specialising too early, but we opt in y8 and were outstanding again 2 years ago. We do offer 3 hours of Music per fortnight in y7 and 2 in y8 so are not significantly lower than if we had 2 hours in y7 - 9 and it could be argued, ours get a lot more specialist teaching than those poor colleagues who are forced to teach on an "arts carousel".

If your daughter likes hanging out with the drama crowd outside lessons, she seems more naturally drawn to that subject, so I'd go with that. As someone else said, it's another two years of keeping up instrumental lessons that she doesn't seem that keen on, so why bother?

One school my son went to in Year 7 & 8 had a great system whereby they took partial options at the end of Year 8. So they continued with all core subjects but had to choose 2 or 3 subjects out of a list including Art, D & T, Food, Music, Drama Classics or a 2nd language. They then took their real options at the end of Year 9.