'Extra' GCSE ever worth it?

[Hellsmell]

DD is in Y9 and selecting her options for GCSE.
At her school they do either 9 or 10 GCSEs as standard depending on the science course taken.
They have 4 option "columns" but one of these is just French or German and the other is just History or Geography so not real choices. In the other two columns DD has selected Art and Media Studies.
DD is a very capable student, and it's been suggested she do one of the 'Extra' choices. The extra options are Italian, Latin, Psychology and Further Maths. She is a member of the "Italian" club and seems to enjoy it.
The extra subject is offered via 2 30 minute lunchtime sessions and 2 50 minute after school classes. This would mean 2 times a week her school day would be 8.30-4.50 which seems very long.

Now DD has hobbies outside school, mainly tennis, which she has before school training for 3 days a week (6.30-7.30), now we could arrange it so tennis isn't on the long day but that would be difficult! She also plays piano and goes to a once a week recreational ballet class. I think with studying for 10 GCSEs + hobbies an 11th would be pointless?

Is there ever a good case for it?

Right now DD wants to work in magazine journalism but I'm aware that could change.

How long is their lunch break and what are the arrangements for the children doing extras to get their lunch?

At DSs school they struggle to get everyone served lunch in the lunch break as it is so I’d be concerned about the possibility of no lunch twice a week

Lunch is 1.10-2 then registration for 10 minutes after that. If you have a class or club you get a lunch pass that lets you jump the line.

Does she have to keep media studies? It’s pretty pointless, and it’s not a great a-level. Whatever minuscule chance she has a journalist would be better served by languages at a-level and a degree in languages, or English and maybe politics, followed by a masters in journalism.

Art is very hard work, but presumably she is very good at it. Fair enough about the maths.

Does the school offer Italian for a-level?

Yours (like my DDs) would have been pre-reform letter graded ones. The newer numbered GCSEs are generally recognised as being more demanding.

DD wants to do Media as she is interested in the content.
She's a great artist but I worry about the course work, Spanish is in the same column as Art and I wish she would take that instead (with French).
There is nothing in the last column that DD is mad for.
She wants to do English, History and French at A-level right now but that could change!
In the same column as media is music, computer science, religious studies, and classics, all of which DD isn't crazy for.
First column of choice is Spanish, Art, Business, PE, Design Tech and Geography.

She was originally going to do Spanish and Art until options list came out.

My dd did Further Maths and it made the start of A-level maths easier for her so it’s a good idea if she’s capable and might want to do A-level.

A-level psychology can be studied without GCSE and degree level psychology can be studied without A-level so it’s not necessary to worry about closing off options.

The odds of DD doing maths past GCSE are slim to none, she's not naturally good at maths where as languages and humanities come naturally.

My child did 11 GCSEs. 9/10 as standard (10 as he did triple science). The 11th started as an extra curricular club in yr 9. The school then decided to offer it as an additional GCSE taught in lunchtimes and after school. It was very different to the other subjects and he was already interested in the subject and spending time on it. It must have increased the workload in yr 11 and for revision but didn't seem to have any negative impact. He's not taken it forward to A Level and it doesn't appear to have impacted the other GCSE results.

So basically, if the 11th is something your daughter wants to do and is interested in, think of it like a hobby. After all, that's what it is. Basically like going to work and studying Italian in your spare time.

GCSEs and education in general isn't just for academic benefit. The 11th probably won't help academically, but it can enrich your life.

Does she love languages? If so, I'd jump at the chance of her doing 2 as so few schools seem to make that possible these days.

Really? I’ve genuinely never come across a school that doesn’t allow for 2 languages to be studied!

@Hellsmell her choices for GCSE sound very solid to me, and she's clearly thinking ahead with regard to a possible career, so good for her. Definitely worth doing media studies if she likes the sound of it. I guess the Italian might be useful support if she's planning to do A level French, but I would say it's by no means that important to do an extra GCSE.

FWIW DH started life as a magazine journalist. And one of my DCs is a tennis coach – if your DD is good enough to be training 3 x a week before school, she is obviously of a high standard; I wouldn't jeopardise that for the sake on an 11th GCSE, frankly.

@Hellsmell , your question was "is it ever worth it" to which the answer is definitely yes. But whether it's worth it for your daughter is a different question. It's a very personal decision. If she's interested in Italian, good at languages generally, and thinks she might want to give it a go, then yes. She can always change her mind later if she finds it difficult.

Doing a GCSE just for "points" is never worth it, but doing it for love of the subject or to achieve a goal is always worth it, so long as she is organised enough to not let it impact her other subjects.

It all depends - I wish my eldest two could have done fewer gcses. My youngest is starting at secondary this Sept, and is going to a different school to their siblings, specifically as there is the option to do fewer there (compared to the siblings school). I think it is far better to get better grades in fewer subjects, than be stretched too thinly, and end up not having revised all of the content the night before (we are in this situation this week and it is very stressful). There is just such a heavy level of content for the majority of gcses. It is absolutely ridiculous. Applying for sixth form, they are only interested in the average point score of your top 7 or 8 gcses - so from that point of view, it’s absolutely pointless doing more. My eldest did very well at A level, and I think he would have done much much better at gcse had he only done 9.

Also, just a quick note to say that Art gcse is very labour intensive, so support your dc (from the start of year 10) to be very organised, and to complete each piece of work for the portfolio weekly, and to do it to a very high, finished, standard. I hadn’t a clue the sketchbook / portfolio was worth 60 per cent of the grade, so it has been a very stressful 4-5 months trying to revisit all of the old work from year 10 to improve it / finish it / fill in any gaps… So if I had a Time Machine I would definitely go back and make sure my dc was completing his weekly art projects properly!

Oh sadly it is all too common. MFL is my subject and very very few dc in my school had the chance to study two.

My own DC (different school) could only have done it if prepared to start from scratch in year 10 (dd considered it) and I am not sure if they even offer that now.

@Hellsmell i agree with others, if she is really interested in, say, Italian then it’s worth it. I took Greek as an extra at lunchtimes and ended up doing A level in it. Not sure that was the best idea tbf but the O level was deffo of value.

otoh no, in terms of uni points or the like, 11 GCSEs not 10 adds nothing, and if it lowers grades it even takes away. Also agree with extra curricular, so important to keep these up IME.

I don't think I've come across a single school locally that does allow for 2 languages at GCSE (native speakers excepted). MFL teachers are in short supply - I think your experience is the more unusual.

We’re in NI and the vast majority of the schools in our area are grammars so that is probably the difference. DD had the choice of 2 from French/Spanish/German/Latin at GCSE which is quite standard here

I wouldn't with art because it's so time consuming. I'd also encourage away from media studies

Yes they were lettered. It’s funny because I was just talking to my partner about it. He did 12 and a half which I think was the norm.

And we couldn’t actually remember what they were 🤣 we tried to count them up and there’s about 2-3 missing 🤷‍♀️ but I definitely did do 13.5. I remember that number explicitly as an unlucky number. And also remember my results. 3A*, 6A, 3B and a C (which was French.)

So it clearly didn’t matter that much!

How did you manage half a GCSE??

I think, as well as being more demanding, there are considerably more exams these days. DD took 10 GCSEs including 2 with a heavy coursework element (Art and Drama) and she still had 24 exams. They seemed to go on for ever...

If you took 13 subjects these days, and avoided coursework subjects, I suspect you'd have to start living in the exam room :)

My dd (year 10) is taking an extra off timetable gcse this year. She's been studying it at a lunchtime and after school session since the start of yr 9.

IF your dd would enjoy and be inspired by the study of this additional subject and IF she could do so without her other subjects and out of school activities being adversely impacted then yes I would say it would be worth it.

My dd has done hers whilst also doing three instruments, two lots of dance lessons a week and a sports club. She is however the type of child who is happiest being busy and challenged. Even she will be glad when this subject is done - first GCSE exam is on Wednesday!

She'll end up with 12 GCSEs as she also does Further Maths as part of the main maths timetable. No, it's not necessary to have that many GCSEs, but she's getting a lot out of the academic challenge. Having said that I've given a firm "NO" to her also doing GCSE music off timetable in one year in yr11! 🤣

Is she very keen on art/very good at it? It's so time-consuming at GCSE level, and even more intense for A level. I think I spent triple the time on the subject than any of the others.
Based on what you've described, I don't think she'd benefit massively from an extra GCSE. If she decides to go for it, I'd be opting for Italian.
I took the standard 10 GCSE's at our school, but then I took on four A levels and one AS level, which did seem to make a difference for uni applications.

It was a half gcse; re/pshe or something. I think it was compulsory as everyone seemed to take it so didn’t really count as a full gcse in your results but everyone used to say x and a half. Or just x and pretend it never existed.

No benefit now in doing 4 A levels (no AS now really). Unless two are maths and FM. And even then, imo four is only if benefit bc of breadth. If you know you want to do maths at uni, maths, FM plus a n other is fine.

That’s not a popular view on mn btw and as I say, dc needs to be committed to maths

Another thing to think of is the revision in Y11. DS has been staying after school regularly since the beginning of Y11. Tomorrow, he will sit a GCSE then follow the usual timetable. He will have a revision session from 3.00 until 4.30 and then another from 5.00 until 7.00. Sometimes the revision subjects clash and he has to choose. I don’t see how he could fit another subject in. Personally, I think the hobbies will look better on a CV rather than another GCSE.

My DC each did eleven of the current format GCSEs. They did have time for hobbies and volunteering but it was a lot and they had to be very organised to stay on top of it all. The crunch time was really during the exam period because every day had an exam and several days they had two; there was little time to pause for breath.