If I am unhappy with the school, what do I do?

[MsMarch]

DS is in year 8. He has ADHD. This is relevant because behaviour has been a challenge for him although he really is trying. Things deteriorated shortly before the Easter holidays as a result of some bullying and a resulting argument so we've been trying to get back on track.

This is all relevant because at his school they hve a sort of escalation process. So, he missed a detention at the end of last term. Honestly, I'm not sure why. So it was escalated to a "Head of Year" detention which, very irritatingly, he missed too. He claims he didn't know it was on - it was the first day of this term so I guess he could easily have missed it, bearing in mind he's not exactly the organised type.

So now he has their "top" level of detention today. This is 90 minutes.

In detention, they are expected to sit in silence. On a friday. For 90 minutes. I reiterate, he has ADHD.

He was warned once for turning around. He then dropped a pen so he was kicked out of detention and now will be in isolation on Modnay. This is not the first time that this has happened.

I am livid. I have no issue with the school issuing sanctions, but takign him out of lessons in effect for dropping a pen is not punshing him or teaching him anything, it's simply ensuring he will get even further behind on his learning.

I have emailed the school. If it does happen (and one of my endless frustrations is that I don't even hear about it until I receive an automatically generated email from the school half way through the day), what can I do?

If school are not supporting him in his education with ADHD why are you supporting their sanctions for him having ADHD? When they're willing to support him, you'll support them.

It is normal for schools to have an escalating series of sanctions like this as often if they do not students will not show up to detention, claim they forgot and just keep not showing up,

Most schools have a couple of ways of dealing with students who might actually forget:

For some students (often those with adhd or ASD) it isn't appropriate for them to be in centralised detention and the Senco or Sen department will run a separate one for them. This is usually students who are very severely ASD or adhd.

For other students, a system of reminders can be set up. This can be a reasonable adjustment you can ask for. So he could be texted on the morning if the detention, a reminder slip could be sent to him in the lesson before the detention, or highest level someone could come and get him in person.

Speak to your child. Is he genuinely forgetting? If not, emphasise this is important. If yes, try talking to the Senco and asking for a reminder system for detentions to be set up for him.

When will schools learn that this type of draconian consequence does not work with kids with ADHD! I'm not surprised your son forgot a detention thst was given to him over a fortnight previously and was for something obviously linked to his ADHD (lack of executive function - forgetting his initial detention). Detentions are pretty useless for ADHD kids anyway. My two daughters are NT and a detention would teach them not to do whatever it was they earnt a detention for again, but for my son who is AuDHD, it would not work, it would bring out even worse behaviours in him than those he was being punished for!!

My son was given a 15 min detention for swearing in class. The teacher rang me to talk about it after school. I agreed that swearing was not acceptable and there should be a consequence, however, events leading up to this were that the boy he was sat next to had been teasing him. He had done the right thing and got the teacher involved but whilst the teacher was talking to them he was momentarily distracted, during which time the boy teased my son again, leading to the swearing incident. My son felt at breaking point, it was not the first time this boy had done this. So the teacher and I talked this through and he agreed that my son had tried to do the right thing and that he would change the seating plan so that my son was no longer next to this boy. He said my son would have a 15 min detention the next day at break, so I asked him to tell my son he wanted him in "for a chat" and when my son turned up, he apoloigised for swearing, the teacher asked him who he'd like to sit next to in future lessons and sent him on his way.

That is how to handle bad behaviour from kids like my son - understand what has caused the behaviour and address that - don't punish them for being the butt of someone else's teasing fun. A talking to is enough to correct my son's behaviour, but he also needs to know he is being listened to, as if he isn't, he won't listen himself.

If this was my son I'd want to discuss with the school how they feel they are supporting him, point out how counterproductive their system is. I think a meeting with SENCO and Head of Year would be a good idea. My son is only year 7 but I have had several face to face meetings with them and many, many e-mails. Some might think my involvement is not appreciated by the school, or could make things worse, but actually, on the face of it, it has been treated with respect and concern and I really feel I am working in partnership with my son's school for the benefit of his education.

Treating people fairly does not equate to treating them exactly the same. What @Octavia64 describes is spot on regarding different ways of dealing with kids with SEN. But I suspect many schools don't have this type of differentiation, certainly not for kids who are undiagnosed, who are written off as "naughty".
I hope you get a good outcome for your son, and currently I am fuming on behalf of both of you!

Be mindful that you are only hearing your sons narrative. It may not be true. You could ask that he sits his detentions in a separate room so he is not distracted perhaps?

Are you sure he was asked to leave the detention for turning around once and then accidentally dropping a pen?
I understand your frustration but this seems very unlikely indeed. Remember - you're only hearing his side of the story.

From what I know about some schools, this is entirely possible.

This is a totally fair point. And I absolutely am aware of this. In this instance I have been very very clear to ds that I need 100% the truth as I am going to bat for him. For various reasons, I am inclined to believe him this time. But, to cover my bases, in my email to the school I specifically said that I believe DS, but, if there are aspects I am unaware of, I am very happy to discuss this with the relevant teacher.

@tacticaltexts and @Octavia64 those are really helpful viewpoints, thank you. I am all set to complain to the school, but useful suggestions on approach and better solutions are great. I am embarrassed I did not think of either of these points.

@SuperSue77 you are so right. I pointed out to his form teacher last time that putting dd in isolation would absolutely have the desired effect - she would spend the day tracking her class in a virtual environment and doing homework in between. She would also be mortified to be in this situation so whatever put her there would never ever happen again....

... but I am also 100% certain that she will never ever get isolation. I doubt she will even get a single detention once she gets to high school. A 10 minute code will probably send her into a tail spin.

Just another follow up question as DS and I were talking earlier:

One of the issues I have with his school is that supposedly isolation is automatic if the child is released from a detention for poor behaviour. But I feel very strongly that he shouldn't be getting isolation without me receiving a call first. Am I being ridiculous? I meean, i don't expect the school to call me when he gets a detention? But isolation is an entire day out of lessons and so I feel that warrants a conversation?!

At this point if he's in isolation on Monday and I've heard nothing I'm inclined to go down to the school in person I'm so annoyed. But not sure if I'm being unfair.

The bigger picture is that they have a behaviour policy and are applying it fairly to all students.
Your child also needs to learn that they have to follow rules or face consequences. This is avaluable lesson for life and necessary. Next time, if followed through, he won't miss the other detentions will he?

So. Do nothing. Back the s hool up. Yes your son has ADHD but the rules are still the rules.

Or complain, get him out of the punishment and teach him that in school he can do whatever he wants with no consequences because of his SEN needs. He may well get a shock when he finishes school and has to learn this life lesson later instead though. Probably will take a couple of times being fired from a job before it sinks in...🤔

Or you. Could remove him and home school him.

Or move him to another school.

I don't think the rules should be bent for him because he is neurodivergent.

If its in the behaviour policy, it should be on the school's website. This is notifying you of the consequences, I'm not sure why you expect a parent phone call as well?

I can see an allowance for his adhd but let’s face it how many kids would say ‘I forgot - it’s my adhd/mental health/anxiety’ these days?

or have a mum on the phone shouting ‘not poor Jimmy - it’s his mental health don’t you know’

sadly for the kids truly struggling with adhd/anxiety/low mood the ‘hangers’ on to a diagnosis/buzz word have ruined it.

by all means suggest an alternative punishment to the school but it needs to be equally as restrictive. Alternatively isolation and he can catch up the lessons on his weekend at home.

The last few posts have been pretty ignorant - since when was treating people fairly treating them the same? Should kids in wheelchairs get detentions for not running the 400m? I hope neither of you work in schools - or in fact in any kind of position with influence over others learning/working environments. Just shows equality has a long way to go still.

OP please ignore those posts - I think you will as you sound pretty clued up. Just glad my son’s school has staff who understand neurodiversity and adapt his environment to enable him to learn - all kids have a right to education, not just those with NT brains.

This. Likewise a reminder and a further detention Ann’s failing to attend. Does he forget to attend things he WANTS to do? He has to take responsibility. No teacher gives out a detention for dropping a pen, dropping a pen, sniggering and repeatedly disrupting others … that’s different

I run detentions and we try endlessly to support students with adhd to complete them. If parents don’t support consequences then it leads to much worse behaviour in the classroom. Not fair on the rest of the students who have a right to learn.

To be clear, while I think their policy is particularly ridiculous for children with ADHD, I don't support it full stop. A child who misbehaves in detention should not be removed from classes for an entire day. I have ENDLESSLY supported the school's sanctions policy including when I don't agree with it and as a result, DS has been in isolation on a number of occassions for relatively minor infractions and has of course had regular other detentions at a much higher level than the vast bulk of the NT children. Because I do agree that children with ADHD have to learn and operate in a world set up for NT people in most cases.

I am not trying to avoid sanctions. I am saying that if my child is removed from class for a full day that 1. I should be informed ahead of time (let's bear in mind that if I want to take him out for 30 minutes I practiclly have to beg for permission) and 2. it shouldn't be because he dropped a pencil in detention. I also feel very strongly that detention where the child is left to sit in a room in silence is completely pointless. Make them clean floors, write essays, weed gardens... I don't care. Hell, we could go back to the 80s and write lines, "I should not forget my detention". But sit in silence? Even a child without ADHD struggles.

To the person who asked about the school's policy, I checked. As far as I can see, there is a reference to a child being sent for isolation after sanctions have escalated. Previously, I have been called. I am no longer being called. I consider this problematic.

Is he medicated?

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. My son is in year 7 and has ADHD but fortunately we made the decision to get him into a private school after his infant school failed him miserably in reception and year 1.

It's the best thing we ever did; and financially we receive a bursary to help pay the fees otherwise we'd not be in the position to do so.

Maybe I mis read but I understood that it isn't because he dropped a pencil in detention, it's because he then missed the next detention with a more senior member of staff at the start of this term. You and your child should have prioritised attending this, he did not and therefore the next sanction is now isolation. So it's not just dropping a pencil, it's missing a clearly defined consequence.

Every child has to learn the life skill of meeting deadlines, managing their time and consequences for their actions. This is part of life for all people. Yes it's harder for neurodivergent people, but if he doesn't learn these skills the consequences for him are worse because these are vital real world skills.
The comment about not making a wheelchair user run in a 400m race is odd to me, because the above are real life skills for all, running a 400m race is not.

"Fair" does actually mean treating people equally when it comes to consequences for behaviour that negatively effects the learning of every other child in the room. Like I said, there is a bigger picture than just your child here and you would feel differently if your child was the one whose learning was constantly disrupted, and indeed your child's learning WILL constantly be disrupted in future if the school start ignoring consequences and ignoring their behaviour policy. A rule is a rule. End of.

Wow OP I have a Y7 Adhd DS and although medicated he would still forget his detentions! He forgets everything!

we are blessed with a good (private) school though so (to your earlier point ) they made his one detention he had, worth having (getting him to write the cause and consequences etc)

if my kid was unmedicated there is no way in hell he could sit isolated in a classroom without a bunch of structured activities to do

the isolation thing is a bit odd anyway , there are ways for kids to learn consequences; sitting in silence is just very very mental hospital mentality in my book

good luck OP, ADHD not the easiest to deal with in a secondary school environment

@wafflesmgee yes. you misunderstood. He forgot a detention so got a bigger detention. Fine - I accept that. THEN he dropped a pencil in the bigger detention. And now he has isolation (most likely). Franky, unless he was dancing on the bloody desk, it seems excessive to me.

I think you really don't understand the reality of children with SEN. Of course he has to learn these lessons. But these lessons are harder for him than for other children. A child who is struggling with English would get extra support in class. If they were unable to complete a task, they might be given extra time so that they can still do the learning even though they're not doing it within the timeframe that the other children have. With the long term goal of getting the child up to a similar standard.

It's the same with this sort of thing. DS has just turned 13. He's in year 8. He absolutely has to get better at managing himself. It's goign to take him longer to learn these lessons than other children.

Children with ADHD receive almost constant negative feedback. Because they miss things all the time. They make more mistakes, miss more deadlines, complete fewer tasks. Leading to endless sanctions, punishments etc. It is a vicious cycle.

I DO believe that he has to figure out how to make this work, BUT, he IS trying. He is currently on report which basically means that he has to be assessed at the end of every lesson. If he doesn't meet standards, there's more consequences. I'm not wild about this but I am supportive. Every day, he and I talk about his lessons and what he needs to do. He is really really trying. He even managed to get "outstanding" in maths - the class he struggles with the most because he and his teacher are trying together to support him to improve.

But perfection is not achievable for most kids, especially not a 13 year old boy with ADHD.

With respect to the isolation:

In my school (and in many other schools) if a student is sent to internal isolation it can be for one of a number of reasons.

Reason 1 - not in uniform. Parent is not phoned but a standard letter is given to the student to take home and the student is then either kept in isolation or sent back to lesson with a note explaining why no uniform (eg broken leg cannot wear school trousers). Most schools will support parents to buy/get second hand uniform is needed

Reason 2 - time out of lessons to calm down. This is usually used when the student has been in a verbal or physical fight and is clearly too angry and emotionally distraught to attend class. Parent will not be phoned as it's a school decision. There may be consequences imposed for the behaviour that led up to the time out but the time out itself isn't a punishment.

Reason 3 - escalation of consequences. This is the one that applies to your son. Parents are not informed because (certainly in my school) they can see on the school app if their child has a detention and when it is. The teacher also usually types up a quick description "turned up in class, told me to fuck off and stormed out". So parents know there is a detention and it's on the student to attend it.

Schools do not need parental consent to impose detentions or isolation and they will use them to manage the behaviour within the school to benefit the school.

The escalation system is very common because approximately 99% of teens if given the chance will say they forgot and not turn up.

If your son is on report it is likely his behaviour is causing significant disruption to his classes. I'd recommend going in and talking to the Senco because this sounds like there is much more going on than not turning up to detentions.

I have been trying to organise a meeting with his form teacher. I have been ignored by the pastoral team. Which is, to be honest, unusual.

What is frustrating is that the school doesnt seem to be interested in working with us. Until recently, this wasn't the case.

And the online system us not giving me any information.

I email asking for clarity or help and nothing. I have tried to set up a meeting and nothing. But I think you are right, i need to go back to the SENco and try to understand why things are deteriorating. It literally has been this cascade in the last month.

My Y7 daughter is on the ADHD pathway. When she started in September, her school gave automatic detentions for lack of equipment, late homework etc. things that a child with ADHD needs support with! The school did give her an amnesty on detentions for lack of equipment or late homework, which did help, but not all teachers adhered to it. Those occasions I had a child who didn’t want to go to school and her self esteem plummeted.

It was just a symptom that her SEN needs weren’t being met. We moved her before Easter to another school. Their approach is like night and day compared to the old school.

Is moving an option?

@Sn0rkmaiden I think, as your post shows, there are huge variations in how schools treat kids with ADHD. One of our closest secondaries has a great rep with parents and is oversubscribed so my son didn’t get a place, we only missed out by around 30-40m so I suspected we’d get in on the wait list. However, before that could happen I rang the school and asked them to remove him from it (he was automatically added as it was a higher preference than the school he was allocated).

The admissions woman appeared surprised at my request and told me most of her calls are from parents wanting their child added to the wait list. But from the October secondary deadline and finding out places in March, I had heard so many bad things about the school from parents of boys with ADHD at the school, whose needs were being completely ignored and in fact punished, that I knew my son wouldn’t last a term there. During that in-between time I also heard lots of positive things about school he was allocated - and when I asked to have a meeting with the SENCO before he started, the Head of Year joined the meeting, which I had not been expecting, but which impressed me greatly. At the meeting they told me how pleased they were to have my son joining them in September. It was so welcoming and supportive that I nearly cried. This came after a year of constant rejections from other schools. We tried a number of small, nurturing independent schools as we felt he would cope better with smaller class sizes, but these schools all rejected him and it was a very demoralising experience. We also appealed for a place at our nearest secondary that all his friends were going to and which we felt academically was the right fit for him, and got very badly treated during the appeals process. The school he was allocated therefore had not been out first choice or where we thought he would go, but they have been so good with him.

But it makes me sad for those children with similar needs who are not getting this support - why-ever not, if my son’s school can manage it? As an under-subscribed school they seem to be prepared to work harder. I see on local Facebook groups lots of dissatisfaction with the school I had heard bad things about for kids with ADHD - it seems fine for NT kids, but the archaic and draconian rules they have in place are just too rigidly applied for kids that struggle with executive function. It was similar to your situation on that the SENCO might instigate reasonable adjustments but some
of the teachers just weren’t adhering to them.

I’m glad you found a school better suited to your daughter and I hope she is happy there.

I really hope you don't work with neuro divergent children or adults.

Your understanding is at the same level as someone who once said "just tell them to stop," when my autistic DD was having a difficult meltdown.

Repeating a punishment won't make his ADHD go away - no matter how many times the teacher may try.