Thoughts on T-Levels (especially for pupils with Autism)

[OpusGiemuJavlo]

We've been looking at T-Levels as an alternative to A-levels because I think my autistic DS (currently in y10 and finding GCSEs a struggle) might be better suited to more practical-based study but these are a fairly new idea. They aren't offered by his current school but are available at a few different local colleges. Thinking specifically of Computing/Software development.

His current school (very academic, selective, small class sizes) have been really supportive of his additional needs and the accommodations needed to help him cope with the school environment and I am worried whether a big college environment might be too much of a transition. However their lovely supportiveness isn't necessarily the most important thing if the qualifications they offer aren't right for DS.

But I am worried that T-Levels might not be accepted as really equivalent to A-Levels (they are supposed to be) and also worried that the courses might be full of people who aren't really interested in learning but are on the course as they have to be in Education or Training until 18 and aren't qualified for A-Levels which might make it a disruptive and unpleasant learning environment.

Anyone got any thoughts on this?

I teach on 2 T levels - not IT though. Avoid.

They will have to do 315 hours in placement so will have to "go to work" along the full time study. Unless he has a placement he can do through connections, students can struggle to find somewhere. No placement = no UCAs points at all.

The ones I teach on are so badly administered through by the awarding organisations and resources few and far between. Would a BTEC still be for him, much better established and staff and AO know what they are doing as they are tried and tested.

Some recent published sources https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/t-level-thematic-review-final-report/t-level-thematic-review-final-report

I've been thinking about T levels for my DS (he also has autism). The entry criteria for them is actually quite high (GCSE grades 4+) so I think it's unlikely any course would be full of disruptive young people who weren't interested in learning.

I also imagine no college would want students like that on a course if they're going to disrupt other students and not take their studies seriously.

For me, my concerns are more around the fact that T levels are very new. I've read that there's a high drop out rate on some courses (I would want to know why), colleges are struggling to recruit staff and the course criteria is still quite vague.

Also, the biggest concern of mine is that T levels require a workplace setting. I think it's a minimum of six weeks (well it is on the course I was looking at). I can't see my DS coping in a work place setting with people he doesn't know. Very few workplaces are geared up to supporting neuro diverse people and I am actually quite annoyed that BTECs - which would have been better than A levels for my DS, are being discontinued.

Best friends daughter is doing T Level in Health (NHS Future Talent Programme) & it’s a fantastic course. Well managed & all placements arranged by college so no stress there. High chance of her being offered full time paid apprenticeship along the way. I’d say not all T Levels are the same and you’d be best to ask the college he’s considering to see how they manage placements etc. Not all colleges are equal sadly.

My son is on the spectrum.He did a btech in science.He got 6's in gcse's. He has done well at college, it was a small group so suited him, it helped him to gain confidence. He's got a place at uni to do a allied health degree. It will be a much bigger group (70 students vs the 12 he's been with) we will see how it goes but I have my fingers crossed.

@Toomanyminifigs , the T level drop out rate on some courses is linked to the student being offered a salaried job at the end of the work placement so not returning to complete the qualification. For example in construction / plumbing etc.

Mine have done BTECs. I think something like computing will not have kids doing it just because, and messing around.
TLevels will be accepted for uni, but top ones may require A level maths for computing.

@tennissquare That's interesting, thanks. I wonder how the 'drop out' rates impact on the school/college's funding then. I guess it's not a negative thing if students are leaving as they've been offered paid employment (which is the ultimate aim of the course). It must be a bit frustrating for the setting though.

It's nice to hear of some success stories here. I can see how a T level in health could work - especially if it's been well developed in association with the NHS. It sounds like it's a very mixed picture with other courses though.

I assume the government has invested too much money in these courses now to change direction or delay the defunding of BTECS, but I do feel they're being rushed through.

I am no expert on this subject, but I believe T levels all have exams? Whereas not all BTECS do? I think it is very short sighted of the government to defund BTECS which offered a route to both to HE and employment without always having to do an exam.

I really wish education would move with the times and realise that being able to pass an exam is a particular skill set that has very little bearing on someone’s ability to do a job. Surely the skills needed by a modern workforce are, working out what the problem is and then being able to find and utilise resources (sometimes with others) to address the problem?

I say this as someone who is an exam machine and can regurgitate facts in a time pressured environment. It has made my life easier as exam results are valued in our society, but it has never made me better at a job.

I'm not sure where you are but there are limited numbers of colleges actually offering T levels.

If it is something you are interested in check that there is a college that actually offers it within reasonable travel distance.

@Toomanyminifigs , yes the drop out is a big issue for colleges to the point where they are asking for a way of showing a student dropped out after the work placement. Yes DfE has spent over £1billion on T levels so they will continue but probably in the very long term be watered down to reduce the work placement and bring in Rishi's maths qualification.
There is a stat along the lines of more students are currently studying BTec in criminology that is being defunded from 2025 than all students studying T levels combined.

The impression I have us that T levels are slightly more academic than the old level 3 extended diploma BTECs. There is thus a bit of a gap between the level 2 btec and the T levels.

If a college is still offering the level 3 extended diploma in computing it had a good reputation I don't know if it is still funded.

I’ve been on a few training webinars to upskill on the T Levels as a whole and they haven’t been given a good name for SEND learners on those courses. The trainer said the work placements were a particular issue as employers struggled to put the support in place a student was used to in school. Also the expectations of students on work placements (where they are expected to function as employees or close to it) were difficult for a lot of SEND learners.

Thanks all this is useful.

DS might end up doing A-levels in Computer Science and Design Technology instead but is frustrated by both the GCSE and A-Level courses being generally only 10%-20% graded on actual practical skills and the rest being exams that seem to DS to have little relevance to demonstrating his skills (he's been disparaging about questions like 'describe the ethical issues you need to consider when designing a database" which I can see it's important for database professionals to know but DS feels is a different topic altogether ("If I wanted to write essays about ethics I would have chosen the RE option!")

T-levels aren't currently accepted by a wide range of universities. Locally to me, there are unis that accept BTECs but do not currently accept t levels for certain courses.

I get the frustration of wanting something that is more coursework based, particularly if that is where your DS is more skilled, but T levels aren't really a great option for anyone. Students who do well on them tend to be able enough to do A-levels, so at that point you are just limiting your options.

It's also worth bearing in mind there is not currently a "computer science" t-level, the closest one is something like digital design, production and development. It may be worth looking in detail at the course content and being clear on what he'll actually study.

At college open days, I would be asking detailed questions about destinations, whether they find the work experience for students and so on. They will likely be very keen to recruit him, so do read between the lines a bit. Is there a college which offers both, as they may be the best ones to discuss both routes with?

BTECs have all got exams as part of the assessment now, but are mostly coursework still. I think its a great pity they are being phased out, nit all students are suited to A levels or know what one subject they want to study for a T level at 16. The placement requirements are onerous too especially for those with SENs, or who live rurally or don't have industry contacts - I know a few students who have done them but have used parental contacts to obtain placements.

I would say go for BTEC Level 3 instead. I have a feeling T levels will go the way of GNVQs.

BTECs have been around in some form or other for decades and should not be superceded.

I went to the college open day today armed with the concerns raised in this thread and a few of my own. Just updating here in case others find this useful.

They do guarantee to find a placement opportunity to every student that wants one (though students can choose to arrange their own). That's not something every college does but this one will

The point about lack of SEND support at the placement workplace is valid and we'd have to be careful about that, but it's not zero support they will help with briefing the employer about additional needs and will help with transition but won't have any SEN support presence able to attend the workplace if needed.

The T Level gives 120 UCAS points at the "Merit" grade which an average student gets, which is the same points as BBB so clearly not enough for a "top" University. A distinction(star) gets 168 points which is the same as 3 A(star) grades at A level but (a) that grade is incredibly hard to get and (b) top universities wouldn't count it anyway because the course doesn't have the same level of maths content as the ALevel in computer science (and some require an A(star) in maths anyway to study computer science) - so yes we would be closing off some options. This might be ok for us anyway as realistically it's unlikely that DS would be getting A(star) in anything at A Level anyway so I don't feel that what we'd be closing off is genuinely open anyway.

There isn't anywhere in our city offering the older BTech qualification for computer science/software development. BTechs are being phased out and more T Levels being established.

Couldn't get any info about destinations as this is only the 2nd year of them running the course so they don't have any graduates yet. We don't have to decide till this time next year so that will be a question to ask next year.

No decisions being made now - next step is to see what happens in the y10 exams in a few weeks.

Interesting update.

The other thing to be aware of with T-Levels/BTECs is to be clear what unit options the college is providing. Certainly for BTECs there can be a variety of options, and it is the college that chooses which ones are taught.

Family member is a teacher and heads up T levels for their subject (alongside GCSE, BTEC and A Level). They do not rate them at all. Was recently job hunting and was asked, at interview, about T levels and their response was always to 'not bother'.
I can't remember all the negative things that they have said but they are really not keen (although as a teacher they have said they are a lot less work than the others as it's project work, placements and not as much classroom teaching).

I can ask them why they specially don't rate them if you want (although it is not in one of the subjects you are looking at).

I know the work placements are very hard to get and they view the BTEC as better option.

My DS is now taking his final exams in T Level computing, I think the course is Design and Development. It has been a positive experience for him. College found him his work placement he went back to the same company twice, one of the three students he went on placement with was then offered a Degree Apprenticeship there.
My DS does not have an ASD diagnosis as he chooses not to at the moment but he agrees he definitely has autistic traits and struggles socially and with anxiety/panic attacks. His tutors have been very supportive with this.

He is on track to do well with his results and has offers from all the uni's he applied for, the 'best' offer would be computer science at Lancaster. I did have concerns about the T Level's, he got 6's and 7's in gcse but didn't want to do A Level. Overall it has been positive for him and the work placement helped with his confidence.