Small private v comp

[hoping2016]

My ds has missed out on a grammar place and is on waiting lists. So we are deciding between our local comp and a small private which would mean a 40 min commute each way.

Academics are important to us however we would obv want ds happy first.

The private is very small think 2 classes of 15 as a maximum per year group. They seem to get around 45% 7-9 from a mixed intake. They do a gl test but nothing too difficult.

The comp gets around 28% 7 to 9 however the intake would be very mixed. Looking at the children doing 3 separate sciences the results are around mid 60s for 7 to 9. It’s only the top 60 children that are allowed to do 3 sciences rest have to do double.

We are very torn as neither school ticks all the boxes for us.

Comp

Benefits

Larger number of students/More likely to be brighter students to encourage ds along

Near to home

No fees

Disadvantages:

Maths/science set in yr 7, English set at start of year 9, all other subjects in form groups so mixed ability. We would prefer sets in all subjects from year 7.

Potential for disruption especially in mixed ability classes

very little homework until year 10 (confirmed by several parents)

Private

Advantages

Scholarship given so will get some opportunities to speak at open days etc etc

Small classes size - Should mean any interventions are timely.

Daily homework of around an hour (we like this)

Disadvantages

Lack of drama/ DT etc

Small group for friendships

Possible lack of stretch from other children as ds maybe at brighter end as not many scholarship students at the school. (Ds is really spurred on by others)

Ds is slightly above average academic although every teacher he has had to date said he is capable of more than shows on the paper!!

So very torn over what to do!! Has anyone been in a similar situation? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated as I feel I’m slowly going mad over this!!

What does your son want? Did he attend open days at both?
I would go with his preference at this stage. If he likes the idea of private and is happy with commute maybe give that at go if financials permit?

You say that you would rather the comp set for all subjects from year 7 - do you mean English /Maths both from year 7 or ALL subjects, because that would be highly unusual for any school and certainly wouldn't happen in a small independent? These days I think schools only stream for England/Maths and poss sciences and none of the schools I have knowledge of (good comps and grammars) set at all until year 8/9. Regarding set amounts of homework, I'm afraid this is quite an outdated notion, lots of research shows homework for the sake of it is pointless. Secondary school is HARD. Kids are learning all day, they are constantly assessing, reacting, preempting multiple interactions with peers and teachers, the idea they need to do another hour or two when they get home before they can relax or do any other sports or interests is outdated.

I'd park the stats and think about your child. If they lack confidence, are shy and you think they would benefit from the small class sizes an independent offers, go for it. Bear in mind their friends will be further away, participating in sports teams will be almost compulsory (this can be a blessing or a curse) and the long term financial commitment. If you think they would be
Happy at the local school, take the easiest option. Having friends nearby can be really important going into the teenage years and it's also easier for a child to find their "tribe" in a bigger pond.

also agree with listening to your child. We had a choice of an outstanding Comp on our doorstep or a Grammar across town - both lovely options to have and we went with the one they wante which turned out to be a great choice. Wouldn't necessarily have encouraged their choice if the options had been less attractive!

At the end of the day, it sounds like you have a bright boy who has engaged parents, so he'll do great!

I had the same choice - no grammar option here. DS also strong in maths & sciences.

We chose on the basis that ds was lacking confidence and struggled with friendships, and the small private school offered a less aggressive option. Good anti-bullying measures. Excellent pastoral care.

DS had taster days at several schools and chose the small private too.

He's taking his gcses this summer. The school has done an excellent job. His confidence has improved, his mock grades were good. It has worked out well.

One thing I would do is look into the finances of the small school. Lots of smaller private schools have been going under or have merged.

I was going to say what @Nonameoclue says - especially with the VAT increase coming if/when Labour get in. I think it is SUCH an individual choice and depends hugely on your child - we turned down a (prep) school with only 15 in the year for DS3 because we felt it was too small for team sports etc. but secondary may be different. I would also be nervous about the lack of drama/music/DT/sport opportunities - my four have found skills and talents they didn't know they had because they have been able to do a huge array of things at secondary school (they are at state grammars), that may not have been offered at a smaller private.

I also went to a boarding school with only 40 in the sixth form and there was no jeopardy - it didn't really push us and I think I probably would have achieved more in a more competitive environment - if I'd had to fight to be in the top 60, I would have wanted to push myself to get there.

What does your child think/prefer?

I’d be wary of very small private schools like this, as others have said the finances can be precarious but also the tiny scale can be a problem for everything from sports, friendships, teaching quality, specialist equipment etc. If it were me I would choose the comp and use the money saved for extra curricular stuff.

What are the gcse options like at the small school? With 30 kids, can they afford to give them real choice?

Extracurricular activities? Is there enough kids to actually make sports teams, musics groups, school play etc?

The school my DD attends sounds like your comp. She loves it. They are isets for STEM subjects, but not for English/humanities/languages/arts etc. There are some disruptive pupils (or stupid boys as she calls them... they are mostly boys, but some of the girls can give just as good!). But problems are dealt with. She loves the Extracurricular timetable... shes just been choosing this terms at breakfast. Shes doing four different ones this term... but not sure between filmmaking and athletics as the fourth (they clash). Shes not sporty.. but you don't have to be good at the club to attend.

I think Comps sometimes get a bad rep... but they can be very good. (This isn't a middle class leafy comp BTW... its genuinely mixed. The catchment varies from Million plus house, to farms, to council flats)

Yes I would second this

It sounds like it’s worth tryjng the comp for 2 years then move him at 13 if it isn’t working out

Might weekly boarding be an option? That would probably expand your choices

Also you mentioned not getting into Grammar... is this school a genuine comprehensive I.e all abilities... or a Secondary Modern since the top 20% have been creamed off? Results are lower in these schools, simply because the top students are educated elsewhere!

They seem to get around 45% 7-9 from a mixed intake

I would not pay for private if these are the results. You are better of sending him to state then getting a tutor on top if needed. If your child is on the waiting list for the grammar then the chances are they will be put in the top set of the comp.

Would the 40 min commute be by public transport, or TaxiMumAndDad?

For such a small school it is unlikely that there would be kids from the same school on the bus, and it isn’t good for anyone (IMO) to be ferried to and from school into the teen years. And friends could be 40 mins in the opposite direction.

Honestly: if the school is offering scholarships to students who didn’t make grammar the academic competition is not likely to challenge your Ds.

Well organised comprehensives support able students well. And academic achievement is as much dependent on parental support, which your Ds has, as anything.

I would choose your nearby comprehensive.

The schools is getting 28% 7-9 - so I'm guessing it is a genuine comp. If it's getting those results without the top 20% of the ability range, the teaching sounds amazing and OP should definitely send her DC there.

don't get too hung up on sets OP. My DC's school only set in maths until Year 10 (when they also set in science). Their results are not markedly different from the local school with similar intake that sets in everything. IMO sets only benefit the top performers. Other students can be constrained in what they are able to achieve by the rigidity of the set structure.

I also wouldn't worry too much about homework. It's perfectly possible to cover the syllabus in school time and occasional homework to "finish off" should be all that's needed until GCSE years.

I would say 30 students in a year is far too small. Your DS might struggle to find similarly minded friends.

I would pick the comp based on what you say. Sounds like a good one.

Thank you all for your comments, much appreciated.

My son is undecided, unfortunately he didn't go to the open day at the comp due to a family bereavement. I did call but they said we couldn't come and look around. He does have a transition day in July so could hang on until then!
He enjoyed the private school taster day, however has some reservations about it being small from a friendship perspective.

My interest in SETs is from a behaviour/disruption perspective, being with like minded hard working children has really benefited my ds in his primary years.

There are grammar schools in the area so some of the brightest will go there however some of the very capable decide not to do the 11plus and are at the comp.

I'm drawn by the private in terms of them keeping a close eye on him academically but am a little worried about not having others at his ability level/higher to bounce off. Possibly with small class sizes the teachers could provide the stretch???

We chose a local, comprehensive school for our DC over a private school place and we are very happy with that decision so far.

To be honest from your description of both schools - you are never going to know exactly who your child will end up with in their class.

In my opinion a hardworking kid will still do well at a good comprehensive and what a larger, more diverse school can offer a child is not at all to be over looked. Working in mixed abililty groups is a useful life skill to have and does not necessarily mean that the more able children are not challenged. Teachers have to be extremely adaptive nowadays in how they teach the curriculum.

The sets and homework concerns you have aren't so important to me personally - I would more what to be reasured that the local comp offers excellent teaching and has policies in place to stop disruption from bad behaviour then it sounds a far more attractive school than the private school.

My interest in SETs is from a behaviour/disruption perspective, being with like minded hard working children has really benefited my ds in his primary years.

I think you need to be a bit careful here. Firstly, the majority of children will likely be "like minded" and hard working. There will be plenty of them in any mixed ability class. Secondly, children change a lot at secondary school! Some of those children that your DS has benefited with in his primary years might be the disruptive ones at secondary school. Thirdly, if he's not got a grammar place, your DS would not be in top sets anyway, which I'm assuming you are using as a proxy for "well behaved" (although able children are not necessarily non disruptive ...). As per PP, it's better that the school deals with poor behaviour well, than that you can get your child in a set where there isn't any (unlikely anyway).

Are you affluent? Send to private. Is it going to be a financial sacrifice? Send to comprehensive.
I don't believe in private education unless it is super selective school. Let me emphasise. Not a selective school ( with 11+) but superselective school with 10 -30 per place. Super selective has a choice of who to accept and if they kick a kid out there are 20 waiting for his/ her place. Whereas average selective accepts nearly anybody who applies and 11+ is just a way to improve the kid's knowledge ahead of the start.
Average private school is a money making machine. All issues are swept under the carpet so the school has splendid fame. A private school has a marketing manager or coordinator as a staff member because it is a business. This person job for 40 h per week is to promote the school and remove any possible information that would affect its fame.
I am 100% positive that there are marketing people coming to this site and adding comments to promote the schools.
Education matters to me a lot and I would move to another area for a good school but I would not send a child to a non selective money makers business but comprehensive. That is me, and I respect anybody's else's choices too.

exactly. I am not sure where the idea that private= non disruptive kids and comprehensive= disruptive kids comes from.

Affluent people have also disruptive and spoilt kids. Not a rare thing...

Why have they offered a scholarship?
Sounds like your DS isnt academically brilliant so is it a sport one or similar?
If not I would be a bit worried about the long term future of the school

I chose a private option for my child but that is in primary, my other children had gone to a outstanding local state. However they missed my DS educational difficulties as he was 'average'. He ended up being diagnosed with dyslexia and processing issues when he went to private secondary. My youngest has a similar profile but was picked up in the private system, he has three one to ones a week. He also does touch typing and in a class size of 12. If I had moved him to the school my other kids went to he would have been in class size of 30 and yr group of 90. if your DC has no educational issues at all then any school is good. For my youngest we have kept him in private and he is thriving - so it really depends on the child

Add to your disadvantages for the private "may go bust" as those aren't economic class sizes especially with the threatened VAT on fees.

At least have a glance at their accounts on the Companies House website before committing.

Mine are at private but i wouldn't pay for the type of private you describe unless my child couldn't manage the atmosphere of a comp.