What are 'green flags' that you would look for when choosing a secondary school?

[As8ly4yn]

This doesn't pertain to me, just interested in what people think.

Choice is a bit of a misnomer for lots of people. We didn't have a choice unless we paid, moved or 'found' God.

My initial questions would be:

• is DC even likely to be able to secure a place?
• what's the journey like? (Try it at school run o'clock when it's raining, and if it depends on public transport, what's the work around if there are strikes?)

I think staff turnover tells you quite a lot.
There are not many teachers who leave my DC's school unless it is to take up a Head of Dept role somewhere else or they're retiring and when jobs do come up they seem to get filled very quickly. It strikes me that if a school is a place where teachers want to work it is probably somewhere that would be good for the pupils too.
A lot of the schools in our area have been rebuilt in the last decade or so and are new, shiny, well equipped buildings whereas ours is old and a bit shabby in places but you know your kids will be taught maths by maths teachers and physics by physics teachers which beats having a fancy swimming pool in my book.
It's good in other ways too - strong results and plenty of extra curriculars - but I think it's the quality and consistency of the staff and SLT which is key.

In addition to the above (from bitter experience) is how they deal with bullying.

I look for schools who are open and honest.

A school who sells themselves (especially based on a 10 yr old ofsted) is usually hiding something.

A school that denies bullying is lying.

A school that uses reward is a green light for me. A red flag is one who uses negative points constantly as if punishment makes your own suddenly work when it runs out.

Schools with sensible uniform who focus on teaching and learning are a green light.

Access and how they treat kids with sen. Ds2 goes to a sen school. When looking for ds1 we had a tour of a local comp with a pupil who showed us the inclusion rooms and said 'that's where they send the disabled children'. Ds1 has no needs and is very academic and social etc so not an issue for him but I thought if this is how they treat and allow disabled children to be spoken about on an open night, what goes on in school time? He didn't go there.

How the children interact with teachers.

Was these two for us that were the kicker. Less academically stellar and old and tatty building, but the relationship and interactions with staff and students on open evening and the SEN support. DD1 is awaiting an ASD assessment but school have supported her as if diagnosed, she has a key worker who checks in on her in school regularly and emails me to check how she's doing at home (she presents very differently in different settings) - for a child that academically and behaviourally shows no concerns at school - that's a pretty decent level of support.

I looked around three schools that my DS could have gone to (we live in the mid point). In each school I was shown around by yr 7s.
I asked them to tell me the very best and the very worst thing about the school. (Their answers were very interesting!). I asked them if it was embarrassing to be awarded merit badges, or if they were worn with pride. If the students wanted to achieve, and it was seen as a good thing in general, that was a green flag for me.

Good point.
I suspect this goes hand in hand with a good SLT. Only one of my children has had bullying issues and he told his older sister about it. She was worried so went to the Headmaster and the response was swift and decisive. I was impressed, both by the action re my son's bullying but even more so by the fact that a pupil could show up at the Head's office with a concern and get to see him as a priority.

Completely agree with this, a local primary school to us is Ofsted outstanding (in the report it stated that it offered a variety of different clubs, trips, and extracurriculars), yet little to no work is completed in the summer term (my neighbour's DC's maths exercise book from last year contains no work after mid-April).

You don’t choose a school, you express a preference.

My preference would be a school where there is a working buzz.
Where SLT are visible and have a teaching commitment.
Where there is a calm and ordered atmosphere, with children engaged in learning.
Where there is a mutually respectful and positive relationship between pupils and staff.
Where the children are keen to tell you about their school and the activities there are there.
Where all students are welcomed and there are clear strategies for managing and catering effectively for all types of SEND.
Where there is awareness of strengths and areas for improvement.

Do I meet the criteria for a place?
Is travelling easy?

Studies have repeatedly shown that great teachers are the single biggest asset to DCs in school (in fact, contrary to what many seem to believe DCs do better in large classes with a great teacher than in small classes with a poor one). So on that basis teachers who seem interested, engaged and encourage the DCs to talk to them and ask questions are a massive green flag.

Slightly shabby buildings and teachers dressed informally/not in suits. A positive vibe coming from the students with them showing a friendly attitude towards the teachers (not overly familiar/cheeky but not scared to death of them). Interesting displays of the students' work or information, but no meaningless corporate motivational type posters.

They made the mistake of letting a very excitable DD1 do this for this year.

I am not sure that "you gotta come here we got a slushie machine in the canteen and it's well peng innit" is the advert for the school that the school wanted!

(DD1 at the moment is going through that delightful phase of trying to speak like some kind of street gangsta and being really pathetic at it)

If the Head seens good and likely to be around for several years. Twice I've had one or other of my kids at a school I was really happy with, Head changed and the school did too. I'm not saying it was worse overall just not as good a fit for my child.

Oh and also - the uniform talk was along the lines of "buy the school blazer and tie, get to wherever's got the offers on for the rest of it and you'll probably not need many jumpers cos the buildings tend to run hot in here so they rarely wear them"

I appreciated that in an age where schools and uniform can get bloody ridiculous.

And they have a very cute school dog.

My ds was at primary school where he was lonely because he didn't like football. He was bored in class and felt held back in year 6. Hated sport. He came out angry, miserable and frustrated. Being turned off school. I was very worried.

We found a (shabby, unfashionable) school that encouraged different kinds of sport, had a very strong maths department, lots of extra-curriculars to try, great pastoral care. Kind teachers who had the time to care. DS went for three taster days and was offered a 50% maths bursary. Classes of 23 so not tiny but better than most. A very happy vibe, no hot-housing.

Financially it has been a massive stretch for me but it's worked brilliantly. DS is happy, confident, sociable, enjoying sport. Suddenly a young man rather than a depressed child. Such a relief.

As a secondary maths teacher, I disagree somewhat with “interesting displays of the students’ work”. I have basically no displays of their work in my classroom, because their work is mainly algebra/geometry/arithmetic/probability etc and I can’t see the point of making a display of it. Displays seem like a waste of my time and my students’ time.

Excellent pastoral care, SEN provision, how the staff interact with pupils, a reasonable consequence system that enables standards to be upheld but allows tailoring for individual circumstances and not petty. Also stand outside at home time and observe. There will always be a bit of boisterous behaviour but if the exodus is generally calm with not too much swearing, evidence of bullying etc it's a good sign. Things like osfted reports and open events are for superficial information only in my experience, though looking round gives you a feel for the place and how your child might get on there. I didn't want something too big for DS.

You're right, student work isn't displayed anymore. In any subject.

One of the things I really liked about my DC's school was the emphasis placed on art, music and drama. He has gone on to be very involved with drama and to choose two Music-related A-Levels and I am sure that would not have happened had he gone to another school. (That's not to say that other parts of his experience wouldn't have been better though!)

I like a school that is strict, with zero tolerance of poor behaviour.

I want it to have a policy of no phones allowed on during the school day (and that if the rule is broken, the phone is removed from the child and a parent has to come to collect it)

High GCSE results.

Classes set on ability from year 7 onwards.

Low staff turnover.

OFSTED outstanding under the current head.

Choose a school that’s right for your child, not your friend’s child.

Friend A may be raving about school x, its sports facilities, etc, but if you have a child that refers performing arts, then choose school Y.

I like a school that is strict, with zero tolerance of poor behaviour.

Tastes vary - this would be a red flag for me

@zaxxon fair enough. My experience round these parts is that the wishy washy on disciplinine schools are the failing ones.