Which A Levels for Computer Science degree eventually?

[Gunnersforthecup]

DC wants to do either Computer Science or Music at University.

He likes the idea of Music, but also really enjoys, and is good at computing, and sees that it is a more reliable lead into decently paid employment.

He wants to do A levels in Music, Maths and Computer Science.

At one open evening, the sixth form tutor was not very encouraging about Further Maths, saying that most unis did not insist on it; if you were down as attempting Further Maths, you might well get an offer demanding an A*; and as this was difficult to achieve, it could then become a liability.

However, I have just been watching a video about uni application (high end) where the must have is Maths, the desirable is Further Maths, and other options are left open.

I have also seen a very highly selective sixth form (not one he is applying to) insisting in their criteria that people wanting to do Computing Science have to take Computing Science, Physics, Maths and Further Maths.

Can anyone shed any more light on this?

Southampton is in a strange situation.Some courses have come out as very highly rated, just below Oxbridge (or even top in the country). Presumably because of good research? or good teaching?

Probably both for CS and engineering. When my DD was going to open days for electronic engineering, Southampton did their EEE together with the CS (not sure if they have some overlap in hardware development there?) - it all seemed very good, and a nice atmosphere. If she'd not got an offer from Cambridge she'd definitely have gone there.

Ds is studying joint comp sci and maths, but applied for straight comp sci everywhere except where he ended up! He did maths, comp sci and physiology: further maths wasn’t an option given his choices although he did look at it. He got interviewed and pooled for Cambridge without the further maths, although didn’t get a final offe, although in retrospect he would have loved further maths. His uni course covered further maths A level content in his first term, which was fairly full on! It is (as I’m sure you’ve realised) a very competitive course. I’d also suggest he thinks about whether he is more interested in a more theoretical/maths based course or a more practical course that covers more practical content.

As poster above says, Southampton has more engineering/ hardware overlap iirc (Ds had an offer from there too but less his space)

When I applied for comp sci years ago I found that not all Universities needed maths. The ones that did seemed to be more hardware based.

I can't find it now, but last time I looked up the entrance requirements for Southampton (and I think it was for computing), I think it was AAB or similar. It looks a lot higher now!

I just refreshed my memory - they have it configured as the School of Electronics and Computer Science. Might be interesting to @DibbleDooDah 's DD?

@ErrolTheDragon Yes, there are increasingly more courses that acknowledge the overlap between engineering and CS, and to a lesser extent, design.

She likes the look of the Design Engineering (MEng) at Imperial as one option but she’s only in Y10 now. Having to nail down A-level choices though as she’s considering moving to a different sixth form and they need to know if and when she decides to register.

I mean, even washing machines are WiFi enabled these days 😂😂😂😂

If your DC is sure about Computer Science, has he considered a degree apprenticeship. In tech careers experience as well as a relevant degree will get you ahead. Have a look at Birmingham's offer to get an idea, plus zero tuition fees.

https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/undergraduate/courses/computer-science/computer-science-pwc#:~:text=The%20apprenticeship%20programme%20starts%20in,work%20at%20the%20same%20time.

Would music be a 4th or a 3rd A Level?

I don't have any evidence other than anecdotal to prove this but I suspect that getting an A star in music is harder for able student than getting an A star in maths/computer science (if you're good at these subjects, getting an A star is "straight forward"). Therefore, if your DC is targeting the top universities that want predominantly A stars, I might be wary of music if a 3rd and not a 4th A Level.

I always push able students who want to do further maths to do 4 A-levels. If you are able to do double maths, you can do two other A-levels too generally.

DS is thinking of FM as a possible extra to Computing, Maths and Music.

I don't know exactly how offers are made.

Presumably, an offer would be for the subjects most relevant to the degree. In that case, if 3 subjects were identified for an offer, presumably that would be Maths, Further Maths and Computing.

Is that how it works?

And yes, he would be allowed to do 4 A levels (and one place would even allow 5, including FM).

However, see my OP, there was the suggestion that FM is a sort of hostage to fortune, as it might be associated with a very high offer.

Also DS would really prefer not to create extra work for himself that he does not absolutely need to do. Especially if there is any chance that it might somehow count against him.

He is going to be doing a lot of music anyway though, as it is his big hobby.

Presumably, an offer would be for the subjects most relevant to the degree. In that case, if 3 subjects were identified for an offer, presumably that would be Maths, Further Maths and Computing.

not quite.

if a course has a subject that is a pre requisite (such as maths) for computing then yes that subject will be stipulated and a minimum grade in that subject might also be stipulated.

So the offer could be for example AAB including at least an A in maths.

Or it could be AAB including A in either maths or Computer Science (if that’s what a particular uni specify. )

Further Maths is useful partly because - depending on where he goes - the majority of others on the course will have done it, so it helps not to get left behind (I speak from painful experience here!)

You might also get one uni giving two variations on its offer - eg A star A A or A star A star B with one of the A star grades being in maths.

Is it possible to apply for a degree apprenticeship alongside the UCAS application, or are the two mutually exclusive?

@VanillaSugar2024 You can apply for both, so you can have a mix of degree courses and apprenticeships and make a firm decision further down the process.

Maths/FM/CompSci and Music sounds an excellent combination to me. Next year (this summer if he can get to some open days is a good start) he should look at what the various comp sci courses actually include and notice what he likes the sound of, what he is less interested in, to work out which courses he would enjoy. At the same time he should consider what music he is likely to be able to do alongside. Obviously oxbridge is good for that but so are lots of other places. My DS is currently doing maths but with plenty of music activities alongside - he had a similar dilemma at your son's age, and came to appreciate that a maths degree would give him better options for earning money at least to start with. It also turned out he didn't like writing essays (though he's good at them), which was a final nail in the coffin for applying for a music degree 😄He's actually won a significant compositon prize already this year so music is earning him money at present ...

(My DS did physics not comp sci A level, and threw in a language "because he could" ... Music A* wasn't difficult for him, being a few years past grade 8s in two instruments and theory, and a similar standard in a 3rd instrument and singing)

Edited to add: On 5 A levels, his (maths) offers all asked for Astar in both maths, and an A either in physics specifically, or in any of the others. Asking what offers would look like with a given subject combination is an excellent question to ask at open days!

Asking what offers would look like with a given subject combination is an excellent question to ask at open days!

Or for the yr10/11 kids contemplating their choices, it can be a question to ask course admission tutors by email (or phone, but email is probably easier).

Imperial has maths as essential and further maths, computer science and physics as helpful. They make a fair few offers for three a levels (I think around 25%) so I would guess quite a few don't have further maths as it is usually a 4th A Level. My understanding is that without computer science you need to show an interest in the subject perhaps do some personal coding projects etc.

I must say I absolutely loathe the trend for more and more universities to want further maths for economics, computer science and engineering. As if our school system isn't specialist enough without students spending either 50% or 66% of their time in sixth form studying a single subject. What's wrong with just teaching you the maths in your first year at uni?

DS is studying compsci at Southampton (year 3 of 4). His A levels were in maths, physics and compsci. He said that further maths would have been helpful - it’s a lot of hardcore maths, esp in years 1/2.

What's wrong with just teaching you the maths in your first year at uni?

Well... my DDs course then taught them more maths, and they did want to be studying some engineering not just maths.

DH studied Economics at Cambridge and his A levels were English, History and Economics. He failed his maths module in his first year and recognises that A level Maths would have been more beneficial than History.

I was talking about the requirement to study further maths. Maths itself is a sensible requirement.

It seems to me that a requirement for two maths A levels narrows the curriculum and should be unnecessary as the universities ought to just teach the maths in the first year. Anyone with a good grade in single maths has demonstrated the aptitude.

A Level maths is already beyond what many students in other countries do at school as we already study only three or four subjects so are already super specialised.

Was it a requirement of the course that they had further maths A Level?

I did engineering a rather long time ago. You just needed maths and physics to get onto the course. The students who had done further maths all seemed like geniuses for the first term but then it evened out. All relevant maths from the further maths A Level (mainly mechanics) was covered again albeit rather quickly.

Entry grades are for all subjects unless specified ie A star in maths etc. Some applicants will have the ideal combination of subjects for their course others not so much because not everyone knows exactly what they want to study at uni when choosing their A levels. But the application is GCSE grades, A levels and personal statement so not one thing. I don't think any CS course asks for A star in Further Maths explicitly, likely A star in maths.

Some rough statistics for you, 68% of A level students take 3 A levels, (some take 2 or less, combined with a BTEC or a diploma, some are wanting to go to uni others are not) less than 5% take 4 A levels and 50% of those taking a 4th A level will take further maths.

Some computer science courses are maths heavy and these are the ones in the top 10. Ds is at Durham studying CS, he would say having fm makes your life a lot easier when learning new CS content and not having to also try to wrap your head around FM stuff as well, especially considering Durham definitely take the majority of applicants who have FM. I did used to have all the entry stats, they are online for lots of uni, try What Do They Know website.

Your son wants to have a competitive entry for whichever university he goes to so although some unis will not specify FM lots of applicants will have it and a uni admissions person may choose to prioritise that. Just remember that each applicant is applying to 5 universities and realistically only wants 1 which they will make their first choice and an another their insurance choice. The uni has far more applications than places and offers to more than they have places for knowing that some will reject them and also a smaller number will miss their grades on results day.

Food for thought, UCL G400 (code for computer science at any uni) stats https://www.reddit.com/r/6thForm/comments/1bcu2dx/ucl_bsc_computer_science_admissions_data_for_2024/?share_id=k1EblTv704ERWVjKwsnIK&utm_content=1&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=13