Reassure me with tales of kids who didn't do well at GCSE but turned things around at A level

[HairLikeAnEasterEgg]

Mum of a y11 - I am panicking about his GCSEs, sadly he is not. He's bright but young for his year and I think the penny is only just starting to drop with him on what is required at this stage. He did nothing for his mocks and got mainly 5s so I feel confident that with more time (!) and better study skills he'd be ok. In the real world, he has a mountain to climb in terms of the sheer amount of content he has to learn. I'm trying to help him prioritise as I think that's the only way now.

Anyway, assuming he is allowed to stay on at his school next year (not a given), I'm.hoping that his experience of GCSEs will give him the wake up call.he needs for the next stage. I remember the jump from GCSE to A level being immense, and I was studious and worked hard at school. Maybe the gap has narrowed now, I'm not sure.

Hit me with your tales of kids who have turned things around in 6th form...I need a glimmer of hope here ✨️

Is he isn’t really into studying, are you sure that a-levels are the route for him?? I teach, and I have students dropping a-levels all the time, and am currently teaching children who definitely shouldn’t be there and will not get the results they want, simply because they aren’t suited to the a-level route. If it were me, I’d be researching and presenting him with other options locally that will get him where he wants to be.

If he mainly got 5s in his mocks then he mainly passed them all. I'm not really seeing the problem.

If he doesn't enjoy studying then perhaps A'levels aren't right for him and he would prefer more course based or vocational qualifications for the next stage of his education.

🤷‍♀️ He certainly has aspirations of A levels then university. He's not shown any interest in a more vocational route, although his school offers the full range. My feeling is that this is an issue of maturity (lack of) rather than not being academically inclined.

His school asks for 6s or even 7s to be allowed to continue some subjects at A level. (Ps is this standard practice for a comprehensive? Doesn't seem.very comprehensive to me but maybe they can pick and choose when it comes to post 16).

My two got C grades mainly at GCSE. Not due to laziness, that's what they were capable of given their ND and ability.

Both did BTECs at 16-18 at College and obtained the maximum grade - triple distinction stars. They are both very happily employed and doing well in their mid 20s.

In true Mumsnet fashion "doing well" includes one buying a house recently 60%LTV and the other pays higher rate tax. Age 25 and 27.

True mumsnet fashion, lol! Seriously, well done to your kids, that is really great.

(Did they go to RG unis though, hmm?!?) (Kidding 😉)

Haha.

Nope.

One did a creative degree at a Uni I didn't even know existed- although to be fair its a fab course that sort of stands out on its own. The other wanted to go straight into work at 18 and nailed a place on a degree apprenticeship.

@HairLikeAnEasterEgg yes 6 or 7 at GCSE is standard to continue it at A level. My subject is MFL and if a candidate was not hitting a 7 at GCSE then they are unlikely to cope with the A level work - which assumes a good deal of knowledge already (which is probably not there if a student gets ≤6 at GCSE).

Same with maths and I suspect science. If he doesn't have the work ethic at GCSE then genuinely, he will struggle at A level. Sorry if that's not what you want to hear. Maybe have a talk with him about other options. It's perfectly possible to go to uni after taking BTEC and similar courses post-16; many universities accept them alongside A levels. He would need to be prepared to do the work throughout the course tho - does that sound like him?

Whether young in his year or not, he is 15 and old enough to understand that these exams are important. If he can work at the key ones – so aim for a 5 in maths and English and then a 7 ideally in the A level choices – then that will make a difference. What A levels does he want to take? What grade is he currently hitting in those subjects?

Can’t help re GCSE / A levels but my DS2 got rubbish GCSES (panics in exam situations), wasn’t ready to leave school but school was great in allowing him to stay on. Got a couple of crap A levels (same reason), went on to put himself through an OU degree, got a first, is now doing a Masters and I suspect will do a PhD. Hold your nerve, he will find his way to whatever he wants to do. Kids mature a very different rates.

In my experience it depends on the individual student's circumstances. Work ethic is the big factor in my experience.

• A student with SEN where a suite of 5s is the best they can do on a set of traditional academic qualifications and they've got a great work ethic, will probably find a vocational course at college and be successful. Their work ethic and positive attitude to learning will help them do well.
• A student who gets a mixture of 5s and 6s and an excellent work ethic might get accepted for A Levels at 6th form. The academic jump is huge, but because they've got a good attitude to learning they do ok. They don't tend to get top grades, but I've taught a few students in this category. They're generally wonderful to have in class, work hard, and are able to progress to their chosen pathways at 18.
• A student who gets a suite of 5s who is bright but lazy, capable of getting 7s but doesn't have a good attitude to learning, might find that 6th form isn't willing to take a chance on them. If they find a college who will let them do A Levels, they're unlikely to do very well unless they have a serious change in attitude and work ethic. If they realise they need to work and put their mind to it, if they're naturally bright they can turn it around.

@clary thanks, yes agreed and I have talked him out of a modern language A level for that reason (this is my area too although .not a teacher, and I understand the jump required). He's OK in maths and English. English Lang is his strongest subject and he's interested in media studs which doesn't have a course specific min grade but i think is a good follownon to eng lang from.what i gather. Also Geog so I am encouraging him to prioritise that as he will need a 7 although it will require a mammoth effort for him to get to that, based on mocks so far.

@LolaSmiles thanks. And oh god I think.he might be bullet point 3 on there. College would be a disaster for him, he needs the attention of schoolteachers.

I know quite a few people (they happen to be boys) who basically failed their mocks and then got A stars in the real thing. The poor mock results was the shock they needed, as they were bright but lazy. They then did very well at a level / university / their careers.

Could this be your son?

Unless, perhaps, he follows a passion in college?

Does he have any idea of what career or industry he'd like to go into?

And oh god I think.he might be bullet point 3 on there. College would be a disaster for him, he needs the attention of schoolteachers.

Even in a school 6th form we aren't as hands on as we are with GCSE students. It's why I think work ethic makes a big difference. The students who are used to taking responsibility, revising, and putting the work in will tend to transition better.

If he's bright and he wants to do A Levels, he'll have to make the decision himself to take responsibility and put the work in. Nobody else can make him want to step up.

If he's serious about doing A Levels I'd aim to get his Maths/English Language to a 6 or higher as many subject requirements are based on maths and English.

If he is studying AQA English Language, he could start watching the Mr Bruff videos on YouTube as part of his revision.

Not quite the same but I had a friend who got a third in her degree (relationship issues during finals) but went on to do a masters then a phd and is now an academic.

Another friend stopped going to school for last term before gcses (just stopped attending, no home schooling). Did revise and got mostly Bs. Went on to get A Levels and a place at an RG uni. Don’t you just need the equivalent of 5 Cs?

DS really didn’t work for his GCSEs and I had to nag him to do any revision. He didn’t have to sit them (2020) and was very pleased with this. His attitude really changed at 6th form and he became very motivated (actually not til the second year of them) and worked hard and got grades to go to a RG uni. I think he could then see the bigger picture and the need to get the grades.

Don’t you just need the equivalent of 5 Cs?

@RingDingaLing 5 x grade 5 will be a good start for lots of post-16 options, but most sixth forms require 6 or 7 at GCSE to take A levels. Tbh a number of more popular unis ask for 6 in maths and Eng lang as well.

I didn’t do great in all my GCSEs (4s in physics and French) but did well in the 3 I wanted for a level. I went on to enjoy those as my best favourite subjects and got a A and 2 x Cs. Will getting Cs or lower be ok at a level for what he wants to do? As long as it is give it a go and also look at other course and options too so no shocks in august

The courses available post 16 split three ways.

A levels which you know about. The jump up from GCSEs is significant.

Students who would struggle with a levels often go on to do BTECs. You can go to university from BTECs and they are more coursework based and have exams as you go along so they don't have the learn all the content for one final exam thing.

Vocational courses - this includes stuff like bricklaying and catering but also music technology and IT courses.

If he's not the kind of person to do significant work outside the lessons then BTECs might be a better fit. A lot of sixth forms offer them now as well as a levels.

What I mean is if you get 6s at gcse it’s not likely you will suddenly shoot up to an A in an A level. The kids with the 8/9s tend to get those

My sons didn't take GCSEs very seriously. It's a combination I think of being still quite immature (understandably at 15/16); not enjoying many of the subjects (but having to do the compulsory ones, obviously); and not really understanding the importance/amount of work needed for these exams.

One of them has got progressively more motivated and committed to academic work and is now doing a work-related masters while working and the other one is doing a degree. I didn't push either of them into academic studies post A level, as I think it's fine to do apprenticeships or go out to work at 18 but I did encourage them to work hard for A levels as it would give them choices.

I think encouragement/support and working with them using study guides for particularly difficult subjects worked better than nagging. Even if your son fails some subjects they can re-take and the advantage is it's a bit of a wake up call.

I even know someone who failed his final degree year but is doing fine now and getting to the last two in job interviews.

BTECs can be a good option. I've known two kids who didn't do too well at GCSEs, did BTECs and are now at university.

In my subject, the jump from gcse to a level is huge. We require a grade 7 to get onto the course along with at least a 6 in maths. Students that get below a 7 really struggle with the demands of the a level course. Additionally, there is an expectation of a significant amount of self study alongside the homework tasks I set. I don't police the self study, just remind them of the expectation and provide resources to support that but if they don't use them thats their choice, but its certainly reflected in their grades.
I have seen boys though that perform poorly in the mocks pull it out of the bag and achieve a 7 or above in the real thing with a lot of hard work

Me.
I hated school..no gcses. Teachers were awful...tarred with same brush as brother was a rogue at school.
I went to college, did gcses, access to uni course, uni, then my Master's.
Not down to any schooling but down to me.