2024 waiting list/appeal support thread

[Hopeful88]

I thought I'd start a support thread for everyone in the same position - either waiting on appeal outcomes or hoping for a secondary school place from a waiting list.
I've read all the advice I can and I'm doing the best I can but I'm still struggling with the unknown.
We're currently in the 20s on the waiting list for our first choice school and an unknown number for the second choice.
Fingers crossed for everyone in the same position. 🤞🏼🤞🏼

Yes the late late appeal in my county happened in July there was 1 and it got upheld . Admissions have been really helpful with giving me all the info

Good luck @Rhayader 1st on list very promising. Admissions from the school we need told me there are always no shows in September, so there is that if it comes to it

We’ve been 1 since the beginning of the list in March!

I know others have said it’s not legal but I’m starting to suspect that the school holds back their places until after the appeal results. I know someone who has turned down a space and also a friend of a friend who has turned down a space but the school claim they’ve made no offers - they did initially offer 2 over PAN but how likely is it that I personally know of the only two people who declined a space….? They do all their own admissions so the council would never know. The council are so out of the loop they cannot even tell me my waiting list position, we have to go directly to the school.

This would mean that if there are spaces, we would hear early July… which is annoying as the testing day for setting and the open evening both happen before then.

Ours was the same, no movement at all for 3 months and the school was it's own list holder so it seemed unrealistic. Then, a few days after appeal results we were offered a place. It did seem like they were holding onto spaces as we were 5th on the list.

We've had our appeal rejection letter come through. We're in from the waiting list anyway but the rejection letter is honestly awful. If we didn't have a place I would be feeling hard done by right now and I'm still wondering whether it's worth taking it further. The below is a small extract of the letter;

"In considering your reasons for wanting a place at The X Catholic School your appeal was partly based on wanting a Christian school that is aligned with your values. The panel noted that The X Catholic School is a Catholic school and not a Christian school. Whilst there are similarities in these religions it remains the case that had you wanted a Christian School, this is not what you have applied for in the
case of The X Catholic School."

The appeal itself felt very off and the letter is not what I would expect at all from a professional meeting. It was all very different to our first appeal and not in a good way.

@Hopeful88 Wtf?? There are just trying to turn words around to you... Catholic not Christian? If you hadn't got a place, you would have good grounds I think to complain about the appeals process! We would have done this if we hadn't won our 2nd appeal. The chair was not really independent... I wrote about this last Friday.

@Hopeful88

My jaw literally dropped. “Some similarities”, oh only some like the Nicene creed, the Eucharist, the Trinity etc. Who wrote this letter?

When did Catholics stop being Christians? Most appeal panels do a good job. Unfortunately some don't. It seems this is one of the latter.

This gives me some hope 🤞

@Rhayader if you know someone has turned down a place then that must be what they are doing 🤬
Just heard 2 more places have been given up so still number 4 on waiting list but they only 1 over PAN. So frustrating, If these people had given up sooner we'd be in already while we were number one on list

@willowtolive we are in the same place as you they add people daily to waiting list but don’t offer the rejected offers till the following week so we got pushed back as people added to the list within the week of waiting for space to be offered again

I’ve just checked the schools admissions code and I can’t see anything that says this is against the rules - can someone point me to it?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/60ebfeb08fa8f50c76838685/School_admissions_code_2021.pdf

The waiting list section is really short:

2.15 Each admission authority must maintain a clear, fair, and objective waiting list until at least 31 December of each school year of admission, stating in their arrangements that each added child will require the list to be ranked again in line with the published oversubscription criteria. Priority must not be given to children based on the date their application was received, or their name was added to the list. Looked after children or previously looked after children allocated a place at the school in accordance with a Fair Access Protocol must take precedence over those on a waiting lists.

In my authority as soon as a place becomes available an offer is made to the 1st on waiting list. Not waiting until the appeals. Do you know when the places were given up, and if they told the school , or admissions? Thing is it's hear say isn't it but might be worth asking admissions about it

Ah it might be an authority by authority thing. The LA know absolutely nothing about the schools procedures other than “oh they do all their own stuff so I can’t help you”

Im really starting to think that July 2-4 we are going to hear something.

Ah I see , one thing I've been grateful for is how good admissions have been with giving me information, including all the results from last year's appeals. The schools admissions officer was really helpful as well and had a good chat with her when I rang, although receptionist was reluctant to put me through stating there's nothing they can do.
Whole thing is horrible isn't it.

Can anyone with expertise in appeals or admissions help me with something.
I've had the schools case for appeal emailed to me. They are stating that they are already 25 over PAN and that they were in the top 7 percent of oversubscribed schools as it is . And using this as the reason they can't admit more due to the danger of real life risks to health and future of students. Also mentioned the amount of toilets?
I've contacted admissions as i was confused why they were 25 over PAN when they refuse over PAN.
Admissions have told me they have an operational capacity where when a school feels it can offer more they have a temporary limit. And in this case this year they offered this.
Am I right in thinking if they offered this they must have considered they had the capacity to take the extra children safely and that this is not really a strong argument ?
Sorry that this is so long.

It came from our local authority, our official rejection letter. I think from the panel or Clerk.
The rest of the letter is just as bad, it seems like a very unfair process.

We had a rejection letter from our first appeal and it was much more professional and covered our points a lot clearer. It left me feeling like the decision was right even though it was a rejection.

I don't know what to do. On the one hand we have a place which was our desired outcome, but on the other hand, I don't think it's fair that this panel is deciding appeal outcomes based on what I've seen written.

My counsel would be to think about what change you would like to see from taking this further. That obviously isn’t anything specific for your DC, as they have a place, but I’m assuming you have things on your list — potentially ranging from a word with the appeal board to internal guidance being drafted. This will help you work out who you should be sending the letter to.

Then weigh that potential change up against any potential negative impacts with the administration of the school you are about to send your DC to for 5-7 years (likely small as you probably won’t have much to do with the governing board/admissions officer).

Either way if you do decide to go ahead there is no rush, all the appeals have likely been heard so write the letter and then sit on it for a week :)

@willowtolive Please take any advice with a pinch of salt - my only experience with appeals is our own appeal this year.
My experience is that schools will ALWAYS argue that they are oversubscribed. Did your school also send the figures from previous years? Did they admit similarly over PAN? If so, ask them whether there is any evidence of educational detriment (there is likely not) from this oversubscription.
In our own appeal last Friday, there were 4 appellants in total. My husband looked at the figures, and very smartly pointed out that, even if the panel allowed all four appeals, the school would be no better off then it is now (they admitted approx. 4-5 over PAN every year for the past five years). In the same breath, the head teacher who represented the school admitted that this didn't lead to any educational opportunities being affected or cut. Bingo and score for us I think :-)!
So I agree - this alone is not a strong argument.

@dodi1978 thanks , this is the first year they have had the operational capacity of 25 extra . However admissions are using the 25 over PAN as the PAN number. So the claim that they are 25 over already is not strictly true is it as they must have felt they had the capacity to take the extra to offer it ? Feel that this is something I can definitely say at stage one. At present they are only 1 over the operational capacity as 4 on time appeals were upheld and 3 places given up since .

Schools admit over the PAN for a variety of reasons so worth asking at the appeal why they have done it and why they chose 25 not more. It could be :

Being asked/virtually told by the Local Authority because of shortage of places in the area
Having lower numbers in other year groups so there is room overall in the school and making the provision needed for the extra 25 in Y7 2024.
Financial difficulties as extra pupils bring extra money (though not immediately)

They offered the 25. It would have been because of the shortage of places. This isn't an amazing school I'm trying to get into it's the school that we need and that the children where we live expect to go. We are in Cornwall and think it must be a very different scenario than if we were in say London or somewhere else

This is what I thought as well about the extra funding for the 25 . Surely they can't offer an extra 25 places and then cry that they are worried it will bring real life harm ?

Many schools are in a difficult financial position and have to make difficult choices- large classes, more supervision in corridors etc.

Some questions you could ask -

what is the schools net capacity - it is a range and the closer to the top (or over it) is an indication of physical overcrowding
has the school had any RIDDOR reportable accidents i the last two years? These are serious accidents which have to be reported to the Health and safety Executive.
What was the Progress 8 score of last years Y11 - National average is 0. Any thing well below (say -0.3 or lower) indicates an issue
What is the school pupil/toilet ration - there is a legal requirement

Thank you for that I will ask that, I assume there were no RIDDOR incidents as it would have been mentioned in their case. The thing is this is the first year that they've had the 25 extra operational capacity so that will be their argument.
Can you tell me your experience of late appeals? In my case my child would have 100% got his place if I had been on time. And I do have reasons why or an explanation of why I made such an awful error.