2024 waiting list/appeal support thread

[Hopeful88]

I thought I'd start a support thread for everyone in the same position - either waiting on appeal outcomes or hoping for a secondary school place from a waiting list.
I've read all the advice I can and I'm doing the best I can but I'm still struggling with the unknown.
We're currently in the 20s on the waiting list for our first choice school and an unknown number for the second choice.
Fingers crossed for everyone in the same position. 🤞🏼🤞🏼

Under the School Admissions Code (Section 2.15) a Waiting List must be maintained until 31 December so it should not expire until then.

Re school allocation, have you checked the three local school's oversubscription criteria and any information on the LA website about what happened in previous years allocations? This can help in working out the likelihood of your child getting a place. 'Does not meet the criteria' means that your child was not high enough in the rankings when all the applications for the school were ranked in over subscription order.

If you put the school you were allocated as a preference then you were high enough up the ranking list to get a place or if it was not a preference, it was the closest school which had places available on 1 March.

Indeed - the code is very clear on this -

"2.15 Each admission authority must maintain a clear, fair, and objective waiting list until at least 31 December of each school year of admission, stating in their arrangements that each added child will require the list to be ranked again in line with the published oversubscription criteria."

However, what they can do is ask all current families on the list whether they want to remain on the lists after a certain point. Do clarify what they mean - if the list carries on, just called something else that's ok, but if they do mean there is no waiting list after end July then that is absolutely against the code, which has the force of law.

I think what this LA is doing is making everyone re-apply if they want to stay on the waiting list beyond a certain date. At one level I can understand why they do this. It avoids the waiting list being full of people who no longer want a place but have forgotten to tell the LA. However, I think it is questionable whether this approach complies with the Admissions Code.

Also, some LAs appear to think that calling the waiting list something else (continuing interest list is common) gets round the Admission Code's requirements for waiting lists. I think they are wrong.

That's interesting, this is on our County's website;

"Continuing interest lists for secondary schools close on 23 July 2024.

To retain your continuing interest for a Hertfordshire secondary school you will need to make an in year application"

@localnotail completely understand your fustration the administration team do not seem to care what is said to them or want to understand the situation you are facing. On our year 7 appeal the la actually said your child care is not my problem
hang in there we are going through this with year 7 place and reception the year 7 place I have lost all hope had an unsuccessful appeal and 127 on the waiting list
reception class we are still awaiting the appeal date and gone from 15/18,11/14,7/11,7/12,8/10 to 6/10 on waiting list so waiting list space do move we have a good few months yet so keep positive I know it is hard as everyone likes to point out you can go backwards on the list to 🤦‍♀️
i hope it all
works out for you 🤞

That's really interesting @PatriciaHolm! But I guess technically our LA complies with the rule as they say they will automatically remove all the kids from the list in July but you can remain on it if you re-apply - I guess to make sure only people who really mean to stay on the waiting list remain.

They also told me, weirdly, that the order of schools on the list was irrelevant and that I would have got the school I got even if it was the last on the list. I guess because all other schools on my list were full? But it sounded like the order of preference was irrelevant. I now realise I should have not put this school on the list at all - I learned a lot of really bad stuff about it since the applications went in - but it was one before last on my list anyway so I did not worry much as I thought surely its so far away and all other schools are closer/ higher on the list...!

Yes, the order of the schools is irrelevant in that the schools don’t know what order you put them in. The schools put all the applicants in order, according to the oversubscription criteria (with no knowledge of where you are on other schools’ list) then hand it back to the LA, who do know where else you have applied to. The LA then compares all the lists, and offers you your top choice of the schools that have a space for you.

Schools can’t offer people who put them first priority.

I think we’re in the same position - our best waiting list position is 28th which feels hopeless. We had the uniform and equipment list through the other day for the allocated school and I just can’t bring myself to start buying anything. On the plus side the school provide the branded items of uniform so at least if we do get a last minute place we won’t have spent a fortune on one uniform only to have to do it all again.

we’ve been upfront with our daughter that if a place becomes available at a more suitable school we will definitely move her, even after the school year has started. I do feel bad that this could be disruptive for her, but the school we’ve been allocated is so dreadful that I think any upheaval would be worth it.

I can relate to feeling you’ve let your child down, but I think it’s important to realise that we haven’t. Rather the system has by allowing such disparities in the quality of state education, and in my area, not allowing our children access to any of their three nearest schools if they live in one particular parish.

Thanks! Yes, it feels dreadful - all the kids in my DC class are happy ready to start settling into their nice schools and it seems we are the only ones who are forced into this position of feeling suspended and not knowing what is happening. I talked to other parents who were sent to this school in the previous years and they just let their kids stay there, not doing anything to change it and convincing themselves its a good thing... And you right, its our particular patch that seem to be hated by the LA - seems like none of our neighbour's kids got a place in a school near us, everyone have to travel which is bizarre, there are two schools literally across the road from us.

I do wonder if I should just accept it, but I just don't understand why I have to settle for this - when all his classmates are going to an outstanding school 15 minutes away from me.

I heard a lot form people "maybe he will like it when he starts there" - which kind of infuriates me - he might do, he is a very sociable 11 year old and he has no idea how limiting for him would be to stay at that school.

I think the system is really shit and unfair.

@localnotail is the school you got given nearly 3 miles away? The school we've been given is nearly 9 miles away.. we're in Cornwall.. I'm sure you can imagine what our public transport is like. I feel our case for appeal is strong but all these unsuccessful appeals are really worrying

Gosh. Do you have schools near you? And how would they expect your DC to travel? I can't say know a lot about it but isn't there a 3mile limit on how far a child is expected to travel? I think you do have the grounds for appeal here.

I'm not as far away as you are (and within 3 miles) but we live in London so its different. We live in an area that is not great by any account but its ok, and the school is in a very rough residential area with no direct public transport link - you have to walk through narrow street and council estates to get to it. Which I guess is fine but they also have a total phone/ money ban (search bags, confiscate phones for the term, draconian detentions where kids get screamed at etc) so I cant imagine how it would work with my DC. I also came to realise the school is what you would call a "sink" school where our LA dumps all the children that did not manage to get to a decent school elsewhere. I did not know this!

No, there is no 3-mile limit. However, if the allocated school is more than 3 miles from home by the shortest safe walking route and the parents applied to their nearest school, the pupil is entitled to free transport to and from school.

Hi! I am trying myself in knots again about our next appeal date. Just wondering whether you have got some advice. There was a mumsnetter on this forum a few weeks ago who had experience of sitting on appeals panels - her perspective would be particularly useful.

Our appeal is based on two main issues

• availability of a specific modern language at appeal school
• close proximity of OT support (for sensory processing difficulties and hand dexterity issues) - OT's rooms are close to appeal school

Two questions

• Feedback on our first unsuccessful appeal states: "As you both work you say you will be unable to take DS to all of his appointments and it would be easier if he was at appeal school. However, the Appeal panel was not persuaded this was a reason to offer a place at the school. As yet you do not know when these appointments will take place and you were unable to say what time these meetings will be". We have now got firm arrangements with the occupational therapist in place and can show that, for appeal school, he will only be minimally late to school from his appointments (he can walk), whereas at allocated school, he would loose a whole period (appointments are in the morning) if he takes bus / train back to school. However, I am worried that, if we firm up these arrangements now, another appeals panel might say "well, you have made arrangements anyway, that shows that you can facilitate these appointments whatever school he is at". In essence, we can, but doing this would have a massive impact on our working lives when it doesn't have to.
• Feedback also states: "The Appeal Panel agreed that you have been offered a place at Allocated School, which was one of your preferences and agreed this was a reasonable offer". Well, yes, the allocated school WAS one of our preferences (preference 4, in fact). BUT: if we hadn't put this down, we would have likely been allocated a failing school 10 miles away. How wold you respond to this if this comes up at the next panel meeting? I want to say that "putting allocated school on preferences list was not an expression of preference, but made to prevent an unacceptable offer being made". Plus, it would be unreasonable to expect me not to accept a school place as the council would then wash their hands of us!

I appreciate any insights - and I also appreciate that we are in a far less desperate position than many of you - at least allocated school isn't awful.

And sorry, another question I had. The occupational therapist put in her report a range of recommendations, which includes the sessions at her surgery, but also sessions at the school. This would mean that the school needs to make allowances for DS being late for school occasionally (approx. 2x half term) and being available for sessions at school. Should I contact both schools now - allocated school and appeal school - to ask whether they can accommodate this and get written confirmation? I guess, under the Equality Act they have to!

Wondering if anyone can help with a question about appeals. On an old thread I have been reading it was saying about questions to ask the school representative and ways to challenge them , I wasn't aware we engaged with the school representative I thought they and us gave our case separately?

You will all be in the room/meeting together. You can ask them questions, and should do, in relation to their case, and they can ask you questions. The panel will also ask you both questions.

We had the same thing @dodi1978 In our appeal it went against us that we were allocated a school that we had put down as a backup last resort. I almost wish I hadn't put it down as it's undersubscribed so we would have got it anyway.

@PatriciaHolm thank you. So the school rep hears all of our appeal details ?

Yes, they will be there all the way through. They will also have been sent your appeal documents, same as panel, beforehand to read.

Right ok then, really glad I know this I had no idea. I had understood that we do our appeal bit in private

@Hopeful88 Hm... need to read the appeals code for this. In our case, I could argue that, when we applied, the extent of our son's needs, requiring OT intervention, was not known yet, so we put allocated school on the list.

that "putting allocated school on preferences list was not an expression of preference, but made to prevent an unacceptable offer being made". Plus, it would be unreasonable to expect me not to accept a school place as the council would then wash their hands of us!

absolutely fine to say that. The panel shouldn't really take that into consideration tbh - we know parents need to put in a backup! And your appeal is for a school, not against one.

I would firm up appts etc yes as it will make it clearer to panel what exactly he needs, and how it needs to happen and when. Otherwise it risks being a bit vague. This is your strongest point so you need be as clear as possible about the impact on him of not attending this school.

The language - do you have evidence that it will be of benefit to him? Bear in mind school may say that there is no guarantee it will continue to offer it in the future.

@PatriciaHolm what sort of questions would you suggest I ask the school representative. They will be saying the year group is full , and it is. How do I challenge that? Any suggestions much appreciated

@willowtolive What evidence is there to show that admitting an extra child undermines education / results / ? Is there any evidence that overcrowding has led to accidents? ....

@PatriciaHolm I agree - this is from my local authority's website:

Accepting an alternative school place: If you have not been offered a place at the school you would like, it is sensible to consider an alternative school place for your child. If you have not already done so and it is something the school offers you should visit the school you have been offered. If you accept a place at an alternative school, you can still appeal for a place at any school that was named on the application form you submitted. Accepting an alternative place will not affect any appeal that you lodge.

It is interesting that it says "the" school you like. This implies that that parents only have a preference for one. But it does say clearly that you can appeal for a place at any school that was named on the application form, and that accepting an alternative place will not affect any appeal you lodge.

So actually, in our first appeal, they should not have referred to the fact that allocated school was one of our choices at all! @Hopeful88 perhaps also something for you to look into - complaining about the appeal.

https://form.education.gov.uk/en/AchieveForms/?form_uri=sandbox-publish://AF-Process-323aa8b0-fc15-4df9-ae7f-1404d6466120/AF-Stage-c3cd8ecf-ea18-47de-b9e6-f037503d2804/definition.json&redirectlink=/en&cancelRedirectLink=/en&noLoginPrompt=1