How important is taking triple versus double science at GSCE?

[Middleagefear]

Exactly that. What doors open/shut by taking triple versus double? I just want an idea of impact - thanks

@clary I'm not denying there will be poorer behaviour in lower sets, it's is a quite obvious result when you force a lower ability child to do a subject at a level they can barely access. The fact the combined science curriculum is enough to access a level content should illustrate how packed it is...
However, to imply the teaching or behaviour in combined science is shit because only 17% of those kids get 7s, is insane.

Also, you have 9 sets in a MFL? How big is your school?!

I would say if your DC is intending to study sciences at a sixth form where virtually everyone has taken triple science, they are likely to be at a disadvantage (at least initially) if they only have combined.

I agree. A couple of pupils at DD's school dropped out of biology because they felt that they couldn't catch up as everyone else had done triple science.

This was before the GCSEs were reformed, so double science pupils had only done two papers for each science, whereas triple science pupils had taken three papers for each science. (So basically, the double science pupils had only covered two thirds of the syllabus that the triple science pupils had done).

Triple science isn't harder than double science. There is just more content. If the school treats triple science as a separate option then it won't be any more difficult than double science.

I don't agree. And I teach A level chemistry. The extra content for triple is not that hard compared to A level.

One thing I would say is that combined science grades are linked, so you get pulled down by a bad science. In triple, you might be 9 8 4 but in combined this might translate as 6 5, which could make a difference to general A Level choices later on.

DDs school offered triple to 2 classes out of 8 (the target grade 7-9 students). But no additional timetabling, they were told they were expected to keep up with the faster pace needed to cover the additional topics and do extra work at home.

It’s the same in my DCs school. Triple science isn’t counted as choosing an option.
The timetabling allowance is the same for triple as it is for combined.

However, to imply the teaching or behaviour in combined science is shit because only 17% of those kids get 7s, is insane.

That wasn't me - I don't have any stats for results of those doing double at the schools I know about. I simply reported anecdata (and made it clear it was that).

Also, you have 9 sets in a MFL? How big is your school?!

I don't teach there any more but it was utterly regular sized. Like, 230 students in a year. Eight forms, but we were luckily able to set into nine groups with a very small lowest set of about 15 students. (The sets went across several subjects.) This was KS3 which I realise I may not have made clear haha! Tho five groups taking MFL for GCSE was not unusual in a year.

We have 12 combined and 2 triple classes. Not that unusual. And 2 ELC.

@clary I never said it was you, however you were commenting on a point I raised to another poster. I raised that point because they did say that.

My daughter is a newly qualified doctor. She only took double science GCSE and only two science A levels plus drama. She had two offers for medical school and now works in a London hospital as an F1.

I say this to counter some of what people will tell you is necessary to do medicine.

I'm glad DD's school treated triple science as a separate option.

It would be behaviour and attitude that would seal it for me.
The extra content is easily covered, and the combined exams are definitely as demanding as the triple, but in our school the behaviour of the triples is ( in general) much better than that of the the combined sets ( 5 triples, 6 combineds, don’t lose an option for triple).
BTW @mumsneedwine how big is your school with 16 sets at GCSE ( see above we have 11 with 300 kids/year)

@JaffavsCookie 350 in year 11.

ah ok, so even bigger than us, but crucially your school has opted to fund more smaller groups.

@JaffavsCookie we have top sets of 34 and lower sets of 19.

My DS sat triple science last year. He is an above average student but not top of top set sort. He was encouraged by his teachers in year 9 to take it but with hindsight I think it was mistake.

Reasons why I think it was a mistake.

The school couldn't adequately staff it and he had a lot of substitutes.
He is bright but better at essay type subjects.
His maths wasn't quite up to it compounded by the fact the school was even worse at staffing maths - he went through so many maths teachers.
I think he would have got 2 higher grades in double science than he got across triple.
He hasn't gone on to do any science at A level (he did want to do biology but he narrowly missed the entry grade and they said no)

If any of this resonates OP I would say stick with double science.

DS has a conditional offer for one of the best sixth form colleges in the country, one of his A-level choices is physics. He's doing double, it hasn't hindered him at all, if anything he's relieved as the handful that are doing triple at his school are struggling with the extra work.

Unless people are schools inspectors or something, I don't know how they can claim their school makeup is "not unusual". Like (I would think) most parents, my knowledge of school organisation is based on my own DC's school, some other local ones, and a couple of schools my friends' children go to that aren't local.

My DC's school has 10/11 combined and 6/7 triple classes. other than the school that only allows top set children to take triple, I'd say that was "not unusual".
(The school has 480 children in a year, the classes - not sets until Year 11 - are not small).

Haven't read all the responses but are they good at all 3 sciences? DS did very well at Chemistry and Physics but struggled with Biology. He did Triple, but got 2/3 grades higher for Chem and Physics than he did in Biology. Not sure how much the Biology grade would have dragged him down in Double Science? He did Physics for A Level and I know along with Maths, it had the highest grade requirement (I think both were 8s at his college). He did History and only needed a 5.

This was the point I made.
My friend's son got 9 and 8 in physics and chemistry and a 5 in biology.
This was his only 9 and he was thrilled with it. If he had done double he may have had two more mediocre grades.
Not sure this is a reason to do triple, but he was very set on a physics A Level and this helped his confidence a lot.

The other point here is that for combined science you have to take either Foundation or Higher for all sciences. For triple science you can mix and match, so you could take Biology and Chemistry at Foundation and Physics at Higher level (for example). If taking combined science you would have to opt for one or the other tier.

Not that this should affect you taking triple science, if you don't want to :)

Thank you all so much! I came back to find a ton of considered, helpful responses. Lots to think about.

The set-up at DS's school (I believe) is that out of approx 300 students in the year, 40% are offered the chance to do triple.

He used to love science, but doesn't like this teacher this year at all and it's really soured his enthusiasm. He's very bright and able, but he's also not a grafter - at the moment - preferring to do as little as possible to get by. But he's also really competitive! And he's already started to say he'll feel like he's not clever if he's not chosen (even though I don't fully think the triple is right for him).

My only concern is that he has talked about being interested in psychology - along with being a world class footballer, so who knows how long this interest will last. But thinking ahead, I know this is already a very oversubscribed course at uni. I wouldn't want a double to lessen his chances.

And more importantly, I'd hate to think that if 60% of the year did double, we are saying they're all disengaged, naughty and not going to amount to much grade wise! A) I don't think that's true B) I assume the 60% will be streamed

OP... you could do what we did & take triple through Y9 (if your school starts in Y9) & Y10 when they learn the same content as Combined then switch to Combined IF he doesn't want to continue with the full content at the beginning of Y11.
We are in Y11 and made the switch after the January mocks. It's meant DS has had the benefit of learning in a highly motivated & well behaved class for 2 years but now has the pressure release just as he needs it in time for the final approach to the GCSEs. If your DS gets to Y11 and loves Triple then continue with it.
I've had moments of thinking we should have switched earlier but actually it's working well right now...I may eat my words come August!

o wow, this is my actual son!
Mine (Y10) did combined, said he could not bear extra time with the science teachers.
He is smart enough for triple but wanted to do another option (triple is an option at DC school rather than accelerated in the timetable) instead of more science. He is in a higher "top set" combined class and the behaviour is fine. I don't know if he has made the right choice, so far so good, no desire to do a science A Level, though considering psychology alongside maths.

And more importantly, I'd hate to think that if 60% of the year did double, we are saying they're all disengaged, naughty and not going to amount to much grade wise!

I flagged this as a possible issue - not everyone by any means but maybe some disruption. But check out how it’s done, is it streamed within double?

wrt psych degree - no uni is going to have any kind of issue with double at GCSE. For Psych tho it is a good idea to take a science for A level. This would include maths as well.