St olaves without tutoring?

[FuckoffARFID]

Hi

My son is very smart and especially gifted at maths. I think he would thrive at St Olaves but we can’t afford a tutor. Is it possible for gifted children to get in without the benefit of a tutor? What can we be doing at home?

He isn’t a pupil premium kid so won’t get one of those places

Thanks

I am sure it is possible; it just takes research to figure out the correct sort of prep that needs to be done at home. You will need to do this yourself by researching it. I am sure people will come along with some tips, but always best to do further digging to figure out what is needed.

Looked it up and it looks super selective! It's likely that lots of the kids there are gifted AND tutored. Not sure if you can do it early but there are companies that offer 'mocks' where you see where your kid ranks amongst others...not sure if they have ones specific to St Olave's though.

In my experience, lots and lots of kids are great / gifted at maths (and NVR) but what really sets the truly gifted and those that tend to get accepted to super selectives (and top indies) is the verbal reasoning. So probably worth focusing on vocab and English tbh.

Start by downloading the past paper for Stage 1 and that will give you a clear idea. You just need to get the CGP 11 plus books and work through them if he is really clever and get past papers and do them. But you need to work out where his strengths and weaknesses are and both verbal and non verbal requires a bit of practice to get used the questions.

All of mine got into superselective grammars without a tutor, but you do need to understand the format of the past paper and get them to practise similar ones. For Stage 2 St Olaves some of the independent schools like Alleyns and Sevenoaks School have free past papers on their website which you can practise. But you will need to be able to mark it yourself.
He has to be good at English too and from what I remember, has to show working out in the Maths in Stage 2 (but check on the website). I also have a gifted mathematician and one challenge we had at 11 plus is that he can just see the answer! But I think for some grammars you had to show working out. The GMC past papers on the UKMT are also helpful practice.

Go on the 11 plus forum and hopefully find lots of info. The key thing is practising a similar style of paper and to the time they require.

And yes there are a ton of kids there who get tutored for years in advance. But don’t let that put you off. The more naturally gifted a child, the less practice they need but some practice to the test is essential. Even stupid things like marking the answer and shading it on a separate piece of paper needs to be done at least once so they don’t lose time in the exam.

If you can afford it I suggest you book one mock test as well, places like mock test masters run them. That involves a child going into a hall with other kids and doing an actual exam to get used to the concept. I think it is invaluable. Other people will just use another borough exam for the mock if they cannot afford that.

Yes agree with previous poster - my son got into a superselective too, this year - starting in September, with just me tutoring him from Christmas of year 5. It can be done Atom learning we found helpful to begin with - but would recommend using a variety of sources CGP 11+ as already mentioned above was good - both the online and books- we also used GL assessments and some bond books - as I said lots of variety.

Another advantage of doing it yourself is you know what is happening - of all his circle of friends (6 of them) he is the only one to have scored high enough to get in and he is only one who did not have a paid for tutor. Good luck.

What is the definition of tutoring? Gaining grammar place at St. Olave’s typically requires some form of tutoring. This could be through a online platform like Atom, engaging a paid tutor, or a self-taught approach by parents or relatives. All these methods constitute tutoring, with variations primarily in their expense and potential impact on learning outcomes, depends on the child itself.

Absolutely not necessary if you mean paid tutor, but IMO highly unlikely to pass regardless of how clever if they literally walk in to the test blind. Aside from needing to know exam technique, some topics simply aren't covered in state primary by the time they take the test and other aspects just don't feature.

Look up past papers, get some practise books (if you're local lots of people sell/give away on local selling sites) & go for little and often in year 5. My son did half hour after school most weekdays with the odd longer session with me at the table either doing a past paper, looking at exam technique or working on his grammar and general language skills (ds also a mathematician not a linguist!) He got offered a place at StO but turned it down for a bursary + scholarship offered by Trinity. (Not the right decision with hindsight but that's a whole other thread!)

Often when people refer to tutoring they mean paid tutoring as I’m sure you know!! Here the op is asking whether or not it’s possible do it themselves rather than pay someone - and yes it is…

@12345change "Often when people refer to tutoring they mean paid tutoring as I’m sure you know!!"

I'm not sure about that hence clarifying but maybe you know that for sure.

My son stormed the Kent and Bexley tests and completely fluffed StO!

We did a bit of work at home ourselves, mainly on exam technique, and a few past papers but (stupidly) NOT many StO past papers which were quite different.

What killed me was as he walked out of the exam we passed a group of mums and sons all chatting and we heard one lad say "That one about X came up so we knew what to write" and the others all laughed and agreed. I was livid because it didn't feel like a fair playing field but then I guess they were just better prepared than we were.

It did kind of seem obvious from the comments but if you feel the need to clarify then that your prerogative..

Let's elaborate more then, upthread comment mention "tutored kids" or kids "who get tutored", I genuinely don't think all PP mean kids who get a professional paid tutor. RATHER I think it meant kids who get prepared for this in advance by whatever tutoring activities required, it could well mean parents try to teach ahead on curriculum, figure out the past paper formats, buy CGP books, and practice and review with the kids at home. The only difference is who does the tutoring activities.

It was quite clear from the original post

"but we can’t afford a tutor."

But as I said if you feel need to clarify then that's fine. But I knew what she was talking about..

The title "St olaves without tutoring?" can cause more confusion.

Hmm I feel you're being slightly but pedantic but yes I guess it could be. But once you read the post it is obvious in my opinion.

Anyway op it is possible to do it without paid tutoring.

It is possible to do without paid tutoring but tutoring is essential.

That what I said...

And the amount of tutoring will vary on the child and the quality of the primary school education. For some tutoring could be as simple as going through some past papers for other they will need whole topics taught to them etc.

Of course there is a huge difference, the difference being cost. The local tutors now charge anything from 35-65 an hour! And some people pay for 2 years plus.

Contrast that with a few past papers purchased online, big difference!

The OP specifically says s/he cannot afford tutoring. So clearly the OP is getting at paid for tutoring.

OP get yourself on the past paper and see if you can easily do it. If not, read through the 11 CGP books in a Waterstones to see if you can get your head around it. It is not difficult but requires a bit of time.

"And the amount of tutoring will vary on the child and the quality of the primary school education."

As well as the school their targeting too, all I have to say is for St olaves it is not as simple as buy some paper online and just do it. The parents need to spend some more time to understand what needs to be involved.

Thanks all. To clarify I specifically meant paid tutoring (hence the can’t afford it comments). I’m happy to get some books / past papers and work through with him

Look through the past papers. The PTA sell them. Book onto the Olaves and Sutton and Wallington mock tests which will give you a very good idea of where your child sits in the cohort and give them some experience of sitting in a strange hall with hundreds of other kids.

There are a couple of local group tutors that get a lot of kids in (and lots of scholarships for the top privates ) but it's a pretty brutal regime.

Forgot to say you can apply in confidence for a free place at the mock tests if money is tight.

Olaves is an excellent school, high standards and now very good pastoral care and support. There's also Dartford grammar which has a great reputation.

Most of the candidates for Olaves will be brilliant at maths (some enter yr 7 at gcse standard). The decider is English comprehension for stage 2 so I'd advise to work hard at that - look at the WUS, Alleyns, Jags past papers. Larkin, Hughes, Blackman, Plath popular. Themes re ; nature, youth, friendships, endings and beginnings. Creative writing important , how to quickly structure an imaginative story.

The elevenplusexams forum is good too for advice on the individual schools.