Moving to private for A levels

[dontdarepokethebear]

Has anyone had experience of this?

I would love to know how it went and if you'd recommend it.

Ideally we would have liked to have sent DD for all of secondary but financially wasn't possible.

She's stuck it out this far at a state school, and so unsure if she should she stay in the state sector or have the opportunity and experience of the private sector for A levels. Is it too late to have any real benefit/impact? Would the transition to private this late in the day be too much of a cultural change that would be difficult

DD is doing very well academically at her all girls comprehensive however socially, it's been a tough ride. Things have improved now that's she doing her GCSEs and the classes are heavily streamed. Her confidence has taken a huge knock as she struggled to find her tribe and the few friendships she had shifted dynamics.

She seems to be friendly with a lot of girls but has only one close friend. I'm so sad for her as I know she wishes for a great big group of friends. Moving to any school might make this even harder to achieve as friendships have already been established.

Why would we consider private? I don't think she would do any/much better academically but would benefit from the facilities and opportunities, possible friendships and hopefully, although I'm fully aware not guaranteed, more pleasant and positive school experience.

Grateful for any thoughts and experiences. Thank you.

I went to a fabulous sixth form college and my children both did the same (all different places). We found the change refreshing and the extra curricular excellent - possibly different from a private school but fun all the same.

Depending on what her aims are for next steps it could be a negative to move. State school students doing well are looked on favourably by many unis. DS1 moved to independent for sixth form due to a scholarship. When Covid hit, he was hit hard with teacher grades and disadvantaged I think because they had not known him before, unlike the majority of the others. I wouid want to look carefully at exam outcomes and class sizes of moving her to see if this offers a benefit, but it might be worth using your money to support her at uni and give her experiences and some extra support during her A level years.

We moved our daughter to a private school for sixth form last September. She is very academic and did very well at her state school in terms of results, but was absolutely miserable for most of her time there.
We moved her because she needed a fresh start and we thought she would be happier at an academic school. I agree that it may damage her chances of getting into the very top universities and we have noticed that lots of universities run programmes for kids in state schools but exclude private school kids, but we do not regret the move at all. She is like a different girl now. She has friends she likes who are similar to her and she is involved in so much that the school offers. She has fitted in well I would say and she is happy - which after a very stressful previous five years is worth its weight in gold!

@dontdarepokethebear I can't offer an opinion about whether she should move-although my instinct that if it's financially doable without struggle the choice should be hers. But I just wanted to say that Mumsnet is extremely misinformed generally about the whole process of state/private schools and university entrance. Be very sure of your facts before you let those considerations inform your decision.

My DD wants to go to a private 6th Form and I'm not worried about her uni prospects. I think it will offer a different kind of experience, smaller class sizes and extracurricular, so definitely not to late to benefit.
If your DD is not socially happy at her current school then why not consider looking around for a 6th form at a different school/college? A fresh start might be a good idea. Good luck🤞

We did it the other way round, DD's choice. Covid made this a bad choice for her year but state sixth forms are looked on more favorably by universities. If there are personal factors, that's different.

If you choose a school that sets a high bar for entry to the sixth form then the entire year will essentially be the equivalent of the top set of her current school - so she may find that very congenial.

Universities see where pupils took their GCSEs - they’re not going to penalise her for moving for A’Levels - it doesn’t work like that.

Doubtless an independent school might have a more attractive built environment and landscape - but you should do your homework regarding exactly which other facilities and opportunities are offered. Also - what would she be bringing? Professional level theatres and orchestras and rowing and art studios and an endless stream of famous visiting speakers and countless ancient and modern languages are only of use if she’s ready to take advantage of them. It does have to be said that regular exposure to these activities lends a level of sophistication that can smooth the path to a busy extra-curricular life at university. (It’s still the case that far too many students arrive at university with little idea of how to enjoy themselves beyond drinking, and feel intimidated by anything or anyone unfamiliar.)

In short, even if your local independent school is world famous you really need to investigate a few, and be sure you’ve identified the very best place to help her thrive.

There's no way to answer this question, honestly.

Instead of making the decision private vs state, work with your DD to look at what's available and compare those specific options - her current school, state colleges, and independent colleges and sixth forms. If independent is now doable financially then that opens up options, but don't make the decision about "going private" because it's really about the fit of the specific program.

It’s true no one here can give the OP a definitive answer - we can only suggest things she should consider.

And it’s of course true that it need not always be a state / independent question. I assume if there were a viable (as in notably excellent) sixth form college in the picture the OP would have mentioned it and be considering it.

@dontdarepokethebear Change at sixth form isn’t at all unusual - so I imagine it works for most of those who have done it. People in Winchester, for instance, never stop boasting of how well their children have done on moving from independent schools to a particular sixth form college that apparently gets stellar results. And it’s very common for girls at single sex independent schools to move to a co-ed independent school for A’Levels. (Amongst those I’ve known the rationale is less to do with academic considerations and more the soft introduction to studying with BOYS prior to university.) Conversely, those previously in mixed schools might opt for a single sex school that offers greater opportunity to concentrate on particular subjects. Or just a change of scene. And of course schools offer scholarships to attract students with the best A’ level potential.

It’s generally a positive thing!

Some of my kids friends did this and it worked brilliantly for them. My kids didn't want to and did well at their state six form college but I'm sure they would have done better at a private school.

My kids all did maths but had biggish classes and almost half the lessons they would have had in the private school.

In my kids school there were a couple of subjects with awful teachers. Sciences and maths were excellent but one of the other subjects had an incompetent teacher.

There was also way too much teacher absence in one subject.
It didn't affect my kids but they got little to no help with uni applications etc. They didn't mind as we did all the research ourselves but it might have mattered.

if social aspects are a big driver, make sure you choose a school with lots of new entrants at 6th form. My private school had about 3 new girls for 6th form, they were socially isolated. Lots of the girls had been at school together since age 4 if not age 11.

We did that with one DC as he couldn't study for one of his chosen A levels in his state school (Further Maths).

Moving schools was a bit of a shock to the system but definitely worked.

He found the attitude of the pupils much better as well as the teachers.
It was also the chance to mix with a wider group of people compared to his previous school which had been a faith school.

Good preparation for going to Uni without leaving home!

Oh yes, that’s another factor - moving schools to board at sixth form, as preparation for university. I’m not sure I entirely get that one - you can surely learn to use the washing machine, and socialise with strictly limited alcohol at home - but I guess it might make a difference to very helicoptered teens.

@dontdarepokethebear I should say, the recent boarder in our family was no more prepared, domestically, than any other new undergrad - despite our best efforts. But they found the organisational and self-directing skills they’d acquired at school hugely helpful. And they were better prepared to take studying in their stride, leaving time for extra-curricular stuff.

But you haven’t mentioned boarding as an option, so probably irrelevant.

I did. Best thing I ever did. Still friends with those sixth formers 25 years later.

suddenly I was with a pool of bright girls who all wanted to learn. It was a revelation at the time and I went from a relatively good set of GCSEs to 3 As at a-level. Will def consider the same for my sons. Main issue is that the local private will only take kids for sixth form with very high grades.

On the whole I think the movement is in the other direction to assist with Uni applications later . However if she is unhappy then it is best to look at all the options . Could be a co Ed school might be better or a sixth form college .

@dontdarepokethebear My DD1 went to a relatively small private school and they had a few new girls in the 6th form, mostly Chinese. If new DDs wanted to integrate with everyone , they were made welcome. It was boarding and many of the girls had been there for 5 years but there were day pupils and certainly new girls were welcome.

DD2 left that school for different A level subjects and did find it more difficult to “break in” to existing friendships but it was a very small school. We did look at schools with a bigger intake but they forced new DDs into the same house and they were automatically separated. So look at integration - how does the school help with this? I know you are not looking at boarding but even for day pupils, it matters.

What are her interests and how can she pursue these? Look at results. Look at size of classes and destinations of pupils. Private doesn’t mean they are all going to the best unis. What help do they give for choosing A levels and universities? In y12 you start looking.

Overall, I’d move. You cannot force other pupils to be friends but she should find more when she’s in A level classes. DD1 has very strong ties with school friends, but DD2 who moved, less so. However they are a more international group of girls!

We are going to move in the other direction at sixth form - from private to state. In London the brilliant academic state options become more available at 16plus rather than the 11plus.

There are a few reasons why we will do this - VAT on fees will tip us over the edge of private remaining affordable, and I think it's quite good for kids to have a change before Uni if they've been with all the same kids since junior school (which mine have). Also, while universities are absolutely onto the 'move to state for the sixth form' thing, and will look at GCSEs, it can potentially work to one's advantage for university entrance.

Unis have to achieve certain criteria with intake. If you have two near-identical pupils with identical grade predictions, and one is from private and one is from a state sixth form (albeit just for two years), and the uni needs to have a certain number of state applicants, the pupil from the state school still has an advantage as it will tick that box.

@Wowstar "Unis have to achieve certain criteria with intake. If you have two near-identical pupils with identical grade predictions, and one is from private and one is from a state sixth form (albeit just for two years), and the uni needs to have a certain number of state applicants, the pupil from the state school still has an advantage as it will tick that box."

Could you link to more information about this, please?

@CurlewKate - behind paywalls but -

https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/03/11/state-school-admissions-are-rising-at-oxford-and-cambridge

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/25/state-schools-local-authorities-oxbridge-admissions-double/

There's obviously a lot there about contextual offers - a pupil from a high performing state grammar is not going to get a contextual offer, of course.

But to imagine an example - let's say you have two pupils who go to St Paul's Girls for GCSEs. One leaves at A-level for Tiffin (state), the other stays at SPGS for A-level. They both apply to Oxford. They have identical grade predictions and do identically well at interview - but there's only one place.

If the Oxford college is looking to fulfil a state school admissions quota, then the pupil from Tiffin will still 'count' as a state school pupil, even though the admissions team will know she was at private until sixth form. It's a bit tricky to quantify exactly, but, all things being equal, there can be an advantage...

@CurlewKate @Wowstar

Yes absolutely right. Universities now look at state educated children with priority. Uni also look at where they did their GCSEs so the "trick" of moving from prv to state for 6th Form does no longer work.
From private they will require absolute As and from state there is more leniency with grade results. I think it is wrong, they need to reform the school system as opposed to penalise privately educated children (which is exactly what Uni do).

It depends on what provision you have where you are. DD hated high school and struggled socially, but luckily here the provision is college not 6th form, she is loving college. A level classes are smaller anyway even in state schools (at lest here they are), so her class sizes are 20 or less depending on the subject.

@Mother007 Sorry - you are wrong! There’s loads of MFL courses that don’t require 3xA from anyone! Many RG unis don’t for some courses. After that places like Surrey, Kent, Essex and many post 92 unis don’t expect AAA either! Being at a private school for 6th doesn’t harm anyone’s chances for standard courses at standard unis. Only the elite bother and only some of them!

@TizerorFizz since you adopted such tone, I do not believe I am wrong. I believe I am right and that is the opinion I gathered from many parents and one head teacher who are in the topic.

Standard unis non Russell group unis yes, I was more referring to the top UNIS such as Oxford/Cambridge and many Russell group and this is where privately educated students will go.

Who said the OP wanted those? Why do threads always get back to Oxbridge? Other unis are available and maybe my “tone” was frustration at your inaccuracy! Yes, Oxbridge is different but is the DD applying there? If you meant Oxbridge, maybe say so!

It really depends on where you live, what her current school is like compared to the private schools nearby and other state schools

Some academic private schools kick out pupils that they know won't do well in their A Levels so they have to go elsewhere

If you genuinely think she'll do better then go for it

Lots of DC have to go to new schools for 6th form as not all have a 6th form anyway so making new friends isn't a huge issue