Appeal for grammar school place? Advice please

[GrammarAppealMaybe]

Looking for some advice please….

DS took the 11+ in the autumn and passed but did not score highly enough to be offered a place. We live out of catchment for the grammar school and places are allocated firstly to all children within catchment area who pass, then remaining places go to those out of catchment with the highest scores. DS is on the waiting list for a place - his number on the waiting list is pretty much exactly where they got down to when allocating places last year, so impossible to say whether he’ll end up being offered a place or not.

I’ve been reading the discussions about appeals on here and looking at the grammar school’s admissions policy, I can see that parents can appeal. I had assumed that this wouldn’t be possible because it would all be based on 11+ scores, but the policy outlines the process for appeal and I’m wondering whether it’s worth trying in case they don’t get down the waiting list as far as DS. Our grounds for appeal would be that the grammar school teach a language which isn’t taught at other local schools and we have extended family living in that country who speak the language (although we don’t speak it in our immediate family). There’s no mention in the admissions policy of what reasonable grounds for appeal might be though so I don’t know if this counts.

I just don’t know whether it’s worth ever appealing for a grammar school place or whether it’s a waste of time because their admissions process is just based on test scores. I’ve got in the back of my mind that DS could still be offered a place from his position on the waiting list, and I really don’t want to get off on the wrong foot with his school and have them thinking I’m stupid for submitting an appeal which could never succeed. On the other hand, I don’t want to miss a chance for a place at a school he’s got his heart set on. If anyone has any advice I’d be so grateful!

Our grounds for appeal would be that the grammar school teach a language which isn’t taught at other local schools and we have extended family living in that country who speak the language (although we don’t speak it in our immediate family)

So you’ve made no attempts to learn it and it hasn’t been a priority to teach your child in the last 11 years? Not exactly compelling appeal grounds.

Have you looked at the eleven plus.co.uk website? They generally gave good advice on appeals.

You generally have to say why you want a school, not why others aren’t suitable.

Is the language taught from year 7 or from gcse tear? If the later, then your son may not opt to choose it, or that subject may no longer be taught (for example, if the language teacher leaves).

‘Extended family’ doesn’t sound a particularly close link, and I kinda agree with @OneMoreTime23 if it were important, you would have have taught him sooner. Do you embrace the culture in your daily life, apart from the language? (Mandarin?).

I would have liked for DS to learn the language before now but I don’t speak it (it’s on my side of the family) and it’s not one of the ones like French or Spanish which is taught in some kids’ clubs and we couldn’t afford to pay a private tutor, even if we could find one which I’m not sure we could. I take your point though that you don’t think it’s strong grounds for an appeal and that is what I’m asking. We do travel to the country probably once every two years and embrace the culture at home. It’s not Mandarin!

Agree

Surely if anything that would show that your son had even less need of a school with that language offering than any other child - because he has easy access to start a correspondence with native speakers?
Honestly think if the office has a “most tenuous attempt at an appeal” pin board, that would go right on there!
You can’t even show a Duolingo streak on how important it was to you for him to learn.

It isn't clear whether this is a school that has a pass mark and doesn't offer places to anyone that fails to achieve that, or a school that offers to those with the highest scores. If it has a pass mark, you will need to convince the appeal panel that your son underperformed on the day and that he is of grammar school standard. If it simply offers to those with the highest scores an appeal will be a little easier as you don't have to get over that hurdle, although it would still be useful if you can point to reasons he underperformed.

The language point is weak unless you can show that your son has a genuine interest in learning the language. However, appealing won't mean you are getting off on the wrong foot with the school, and they won't think you are stupid. And even a weak appeal can succeed sometimes.

DS took the 11+ in the autumn and passed but did not score highly enough to be offered a place. We live out of catchment for the grammar school and places are allocated firstly to all children within catchment area who pass, then remaining places go to those out of catchment with the highest scores
So if you moved into catchment he'd get in? Don't suppose that's an option if so?

I don’t think you have very strong grounds for appeal tbh

it sucks but many parents end up moving to within catchments of certain schools, precisely to make it more likely that they get into certain schools. My MiL still talks about her decision to do this for my dh and his brothers in 1989. Of course not all of us can do this but it’s part of what makes education in this country seem unfair and we have to accept that.

i wish you luck on the waiting list OP. And you have nothing to lose by appealing.

If it’s basically highest score gets in (first IC then all others), I think you’d only win on appeal if they’ve miscategorised your child. For example, if he is IC but listed as OOC or they failed to note he is receiving pupil premium or free school meals - those are reasons in our area for priority to be given. But check with the elevenplus forum for your area as PP suggested, they would probably know what would be adequate grounds for appeal.

I would only appeal if there are very strong grounds.

Mine was bereavement of child's father that academic year and being ill immediately to the run up of the exam. All backed up with evidence, which is crucial.

Our appeal was upheld.

I think that’s an extremely tenuous link and you’d have no chance of that being upheld. Plus would you be happy if another child pushed your child down the list for such a reason? I think you need to sit tight and hope for the best. There were still children being given places at DS’s grammar school after Christmas in year 7!

The waiting list is separate appeals. Waiting list places are for the regular number of pupils in a school, so if three people drop out then they would take three from the waiting list.

Appeal places are extra to this, so one year the appeal panel could award five extra places, another there may be one. They don’t gave an allocated number of places to give.

Based on his 11+ score, he would be starting as one of the weaker ones in the year. How would he respond to this?

This document includes a section on grammar school appeals:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6335a0c88fa8f506931f6d44/SchoolAdmissionnAppealsCodee2022.pdf

As PP have said appeals are generally only upheld of there is significant evidence to demonstrate that your child underperformed in the test due to extenuating circumstances (illness, bereavement etc) OR if the admissions process was in some way flawed.

You would be asking the panel to give your child a place because of a parental preference (of language). To do do would be fundamentally unfair to those children who had performed better in the test but we're not eligible for a place.

But as others have said, there is so much movement on waiting lists between now and September you may well get a place after all!

Thank you for all of the replies. @prh47bridge its a mixture of both - places are firstly allocated to all children in the catchment area who pass, then remaining places go to children who are out of catchment with the highest scores. As we’re out of catchment @Dearover DS got a higher score than some of the children within catchment who have been offered a place, so I wouldn’t have any concerns about him struggling academically. For those who asked, moving into the catchment area is unfortunately not an option and it’s too late now anyway as you need to be in catchment at the time the test is taken.

Thanks for all of the advice, looking at the document @Memba linked to, it does seem like appeals for grammar schools have to be on the grounds of performance being affected on test day rather than the detriment to your child of not being able to attend that particular school, which is what I’d gleaned from other threads about appeals. So I don’t think we have grounds to appeal and will just have to hope for the waiting list to move. Very difficult for DS who has friends with lower scores who have been offered places because they’re in catchment. But thank you for the advice everyone, much appreciated.

It is actually both. You need to show the panel that your child is of grammar school standard and that they will be disadvantaged if not admitted. Since he scored better than children within catchment who were admitted, you have no problem on the first point, so it is all down to whether you can show that the disadvantage to him from not being admitted outweighs any problems the school will face from having to cope with another pupil.

Thank you so much @prh47bridge that makes sense, although it does make me wonder why all the children on the waiting list don’t appeal! As they’ve all got higher marks than some in catchment who were offered places and I imagine all have reasons why they would be disadvantaged if not admitted. I had the impression that families don’t really appeal because it’s a grammar school, but I’m
wondering now if that’s accurate. Definitely food for thought!

Appealing won’t affect your waiting list, so it’s always worth an attempt. I agree that your case doesn’t seem strong at face value but you’ve got to be innit to win it. The only thing I would say is not to build up false hope. Explain to dc that’s it a long shot.
Also don’t be negative about the allocated school. You don’t want him to feel he’s going second best.

It is generally the case that grammar school appeals are hard to win. However, the odd setup they've got here means it should be easier to win than for most.

A lot of people don't appeal either because they don't really understand they can, or - in reality, in most cases - people don't have an appeal case that outweighs the schools case. Some 21% of secondary appeals are won, and I would say from my experience that it's lower than that for grammars, but that will vary by school of course.

The case for the child has to outweigh the case for school, and in most cases it doesn't. Many cases really just boil down to "we don't like the school we've been given".

Bit off topic OP but is there the option of 13+ ? Presumably also there is the option to a test in yr8 /9 to try and get in as spaces free up . I have a few friends who have managed this and their children have moved across in years 8 and 9 .

Which local authority is it OP?

That's exactly my sons case I am deeply feel sad for him I do not know what to do he got very high score but we are not on the catchment area.

This sounds a lot like the Birmingham Grammar schools.