Admissions day - tips and info if you are disappointed.

[PatriciaHolm]

I've posted this before and it seemed to be helpful, so reposting today...especially as we are already getting the "you can only appeal if the admissions policy hasn't been followed" nonsense being posted on other appeals threads.

OK, so it's National Offer Day for Secondaries today so I thought it might be useful to do a quick summary post, primarily on what to do if you aren't happy, as I know it will come up a lot today....(FWIW, I Chair Appeals Panels, and am also a Chair of Governors. There are several other experienced panelists around too.)

What to do if you get a school you don't want?

1 - Accept it. This is does not signal to the LA that you are happy, it just locks in a "last resort" option. It has NO impact on waiting lists - you get no preferential treatment on lists or at appeal if you turn the place down, nor are you negatively impacted if you have accepted a place.

If you turn it down, the LA no longer has an obligation to find you a place, so you will be dependent on waiting lists/appeals. If they don't come through, you could find yourself with no place in September. So ONLY turn it down if homeschool (or private) is definitely an option......

2 - Get yourself onto Waiting lists for schools you do want. In some areas you are automatically put on lists for schools higher in your preferences that you don't get into, in some cases you need to ask, so check - your LA website, email, or login portal will probably tell you what to do. You can also add yourself to lists for schools you didn't apply for (some LAs limit the amount of lists you can be on though.). The LA may also have an idea of which schools still have places, you never know there might be something that appeals.

3 - Check there has been no mistake. If you are genuinely surprised and you think a mistake might have been made - wrong distance used, sibling link ignored etc - it's worth checking. Your decision letter/portal is likely to have the criteria you were assessed under for each school and, for example, the distance used in the case of distance criteria, so check all is well. If it doesn't, check with the LA. But be patient, lots of people will be calling/emailing today and tomorrow....the letter will be in the post soon.

4 - Think about appeals. You can appeal for any school you applied for and didn't get into. I won't go into depth here as each appeal is different, but essentially you need to show that the detriment to the school of taking another pupil is less than the detriment to your child of getting a place. If you decide to do this, post and ask for help! A number of us here are happy to do so. Appeals for secondary do not have to rely on a mistake being made, or be based on admissions grounds only. (Years R 1,2, under infant class size rules are different).

If you are happy - great! Accept it, if you need to (some LAs will auto accept for you.) And be patient - most secondaries are a bit busy right now (!) so it may be a while before you hear from your chosen school re. induction etc.

Any questions, do ask. Sometimes it's easier for someone not emotionally involved to figure out the answer or find a detail.

@KirriIrry Hearings are usually in person, but they can be dealt with over Teams, Zoom or similar. If the appellant doesn't want a hearing, the panel will decide their appeal on the paperwork.

The receptionist doesn't understand admissions (not that there is any reason why they should). They were wrong. You can appeal for any school for which you have applied and didn't get a place.

PanelChair's advice in the original post is excellent, but I'm disappointed that some of the "experts" on these threads encourage parents to appeal, even when their reasons are obviously weak.

Everyone has the right to appeal, but there is also the moral question of whether they should appeal if they know the odds are against them. Each appeal costs the school several hundred pounds and several hours work. Our school spent £15k on defending appeals last year, and many hours of (voluntary) effort from the school governor who acts as the school's representing officer. Not one of the appeals was successful, and most of the reasons were weak (in many cases because they were just related to things that people considered our school to do better than other schools, rather than things that only we offer).

Some schools do put up a weak defence - especially if they actually want to increase their numbers for financial reasons, but have been prevented from doing so by the LA. Context is key to this e.g.

• Most schools are strapped for cash at the moment and can't afford to keep numbers low - if they have space for more students, and are allowed to take more students, they will do so, with or without appeals.
• Academies can increase their PAN without permission from the LA, so if they're full, they're full.
• If a school has recently added a new building to its site, so has extra capacity, then it might be worth a shot. But if the new capacity is in the Sixth Form (for example), don't expect it to help you get a place in Year 7.
• You can often find past appeal stats online, either on the school website or the LA website. If not, ask the school for their data. It will help you to see whether they are experienced at putting up a solid defence.
• If a school has never been oversubscribed in the past, or isn't super-popular, they may be inexperienced at defending appeals, which may help you.

Having said all that, if your appeal reasons are weak, and the school's defence appears strong, consider your conscience. If you had to pay for the appeal, rather than the school paying for it, would you go ahead? Are your reasons for wanting the school really likely to be better than anyone else above you in the waiting list? If your child was a student of the school, would you mind them being forced over PAN, increasing the student:staff ratio if another parent successfully appealed for the reasons you are planning to appeal on?

There will be people on here who disagree with me that conscience should be a factor. But they probably don't have much direct contact with school finances to see the negative impact, as I do.

I understand what you're saying and parents do need to think carefully before deciding whether to appeal. At the same time, as parents we really do need to do what we believe is best for our children. I am planning to appeal for reasons I won't go in to here. I have no idea whether my grounds for appeal will be classed as weak. All I know is that I have to fight hard to get my son in to the right school. Having watched him struggle for years, I can't sit back and watch him go to a school that's really not right for his needs. I have to at least try.
I don't feel great about costing the school money but the appeals process exists for a reason and I intend to make use of it.

Great advice here. Hang fire and make a considered appeal submission.
The amount of appeal forms we received yesterday that are just ranting about why they can't go to the offered school, and will home educate if unsuccessful 😬

I would disagree that people are encouraging appeals with weak reasons. What I see is people informing about the process, and offering advice on reasoning. You’ll see plenty of posts advising that travel, wanting to stay with friends, parents’ working arrangements are weak reasons. I think perhaps where we disagree is that they then tend to be offered advice on what might make a stronger case, whereas you feel they should perhaps be told not to bother.

It is rubbish that it costs schools (I would be interested to know what the £15k covered), but this is a statutory process available to parents as part of the national admissions process. It is not their fault that schools remain chronically underfunded. To dissuade people from using it because you don’t think they should sits very uncomfortably. There is no way to know the strength of a school’s case without going to appeal. And the point of the appeal is to weigh up the strength of that case, and decide whether taking that extra child is justified and manageable. It’s not for us (or parents) to pre-decide that for them.

Quite. The advice very often is that the parent is unlikely to win any appeal on the arguments they outline here.

The cost is made up of things like;

Compulsory training for Panel members at the school's cost each year. It's really not cheap.
Fees for the Independent Clerk. It's a professional role and they take on a huge amount of work to ensure that decisions are compliant.
Expenses for Panel members.
Potentially, expenses for Presenting Officers - Governors are able to fulfil this role and they have the right to reclaim expenses such as travel, childcare and suchlike. If a member of staff does it, then there's paying for cover.
Cost of transporting bundles to panel members, the clerk, etc. You can't just stick them in the post 2nd class and hope they'll get there.

Most of the costs are incurred by having an appeals process at all. The incremental cost of a single appeal is minimal. Yes, schools would save money if there were never any appeals, but that isn't going to happen.

Yes, and some of those people may get a place in the second admissions round. We always get several families lodging appeals then withdrawing them when they get a place a month or so later. We have to pay the appeals service about £75 each for those.

This isn't true. We pay a service charge for the year, then also pay per appeal. Around £400 each. That's not minimal.

In that case, the appropriate way to address your concern about costs is to lobby for a change in the legislation which creates a right of appeal, not to pressurise parents into not exercising that right.

Before the hearing, one might have a sense of how weak or strong the appeal is, but quite often something emerges at the hearing which radically changes the picture. That’s why I would never tell posters on MN “don’t bother, it’s hopeless”; we haven’t got the full picture here.

I'm not pressurising parents, I'm giving them the facts, to balance out some of the "go ahead, you've got nothing to lose" messages they get from some people (not everyone) on these threads.

Yes it does cost schools but parents have a right to an appeal and I would never discourage parents exercising that right. Sometimes things come out in questioning from the panel that swings the decision for the appellant. Some panels make decisions that others wouldn't. Some schools have cases that are weak and so it isn't a high bar to jump at stage 2.
Appreciate that finances are tough across education but discouraging parents from appealing is not right at all. It is their legal right.

But it is true that parents have nothing to
lose, and that is worth reiterating because I have seen parents concerned that they may be bumped to the bottom of the waiting list, or removed from the waiting list entirely, or face some other consequence. I do take your point that there is a cost to the school, but that is not on parents, and it would be untrue to say otherwise.

"but parents have a right to an appeal and I would never discourage parents exercising that right"

Like all rights, it just needs to be balanced with responsibility. Many thousands of parents don't get the school they want for their child - where would we be if they all appealed? If people abuse the right to appeal, it may end up being withdrawn.

Parents aren’t abusing their right of appeal. They’re simply using it (and, as you acknowledge, most don’t). Which of the main parties do you envisage would offer a manifesto commitment to abolish the right of appeal?

I suspect the £400 per appeal includes some of the fixed costs, so the per appeal cost would go up if fewer parents appeal. However, I may be wrong.

Let us imagine that the government did abolish the right of appeal. What would happen is that any parent wanting to appeal would go to the courts for judicial review - the government can't stop that. That might deter some parents from appealing, but it would be far more expensive for schools. They would, in theory, be able to recover their costs from any parents who lost. In practice, they wouldn't recover their full costs and may not be able to recover anything. For every appeal they lost, they would have to pay the parents' legal costs as well as their own.

The vast vast majority of parents don't appeal. In 2022/23, 4.1% of new admissions to secondary were appealed (and 1.2% of primary).

Those numbers have been pretty static for the last 7 years - varying between 3.6% and 4.9%.

20.9% of secondary appeals were successful.

The LAs with the highest level of appeals are Slough and Trafford, which I suspect is driven by their grammar schools.

IMHO, if someone posts here and has no grounds at all, they do get politely told that.

"I suspect the £400 per appeal includes some of the fixed costs, so the per appeal cost would go up if fewer parents appeal."

No, there is an annual service charge too.

£400 is for an individual appeal. A group appeal is a little less. However, the point is that schools have no control over these costs. I'm as much in favour of the right to appeal as anyone else, but as it is not cost-free, I don't like the increasing trend on these threads and elsewhere of encouragement for parents to "have a go" because they have "nothing to lose". I think it is irresponsible.

Some people reply responsibly. Some don't. Some might reply more responsibly in future if they understand the bigger picture.

IMHO, if someone posts here and has no grounds at all, they do get politely told that

Or they are advised to be realistic about their chances of success.

And things that really don't win appeals (like transport, childcare, denomination etc) are always pointed out

It is entirely right that parents use their right of appeal
20% (ie one in five) appeals for secondary schools succeed

Parents don’t have control over their costs either.

And as discussed yesterday, I (and others) think it is irresponsible to lay it on thick and try to suggest that parents shouldn’t use a legal process available to them because of costs that they have no control over, and which are a feature of the set up of academies and taking them out of LA control and service provision, for them to use the funding accordingly.

It is factually correct that parents have nothing to lose. I dislike the increasing number of posts (mainly from you) suggesting that it is irresponsible or selfish to follow the process available to them.

As also pointed out previously - data on previous appeals has limited use. There’s no way of knowing the strength of the cases involved in previous years, so be cautious when suggesting that people should use that as a guide to whether or not their appeal is likely to be successful. Blanket statements of ‘that won’t wash’ aren’t helpful or fair.

There is no way of knowing the strength of the current cases without following the appeals process. You are not an appeals panel. You do not know what cases may or may not be successful or what the bar will be (and nor does anyone else, hence the advice that the only way to find out is to try).

You are also giving information across threads specific to your set up and your LA. For example, not all areas operate a specific second round of admissions. The adamance that appeals get admitted because LA schools put up weak defences because the LA won’t let them increase PAN is also likely to be a local quirk/situation - it doesn’t scan for schools in my area.

The very vast majority of people on these threads are focused on providing accurate and factual information about the process and how it works. Yours increasingly come across as ‘it’s not fair’. Which it isn’t, but that energy is (in my opinion) being directed at the wrong people in the wrong way.

I dislike the increasing number of posts (mainly from you) suggesting that it is irresponsible or selfish to follow the process available to them.

My views are just as valid as anybody else's. Most of us here are parents. Some (like me) also work or volunteer for schools in some capacity. Others work for Local Authorities, or sit on appeals panels, or make their living as lawyers in the education sector. All voices are valid, so long as inaccuracies can be challenged. You can disagree with with my opinion, but I'm giving a perspective based on many years of experience. We are seeing appeal numbers rise, partly due to increased application numbers, but also on the back of online encouragement for parents to appeal (from multiple sources, not just here). The appeals to our school have had a 0% success rate in recent years - even cases that seemed strong were thrown out, because our case for being full is solid, and there is another school nearby that provides everything a mainstream secondary should provide, but isn't full. I think parents should proceed with their eyes open to local contextual factors.

All voices are valid, so long as inaccuracies can be challenged. You can disagree with with my opinion, but I'm giving a perspective based on many years of experience.

Hence me disagreeing with you, and pointing out inaccuracies.

"For example, not all areas operate a specific second round of admissions"

When offers are sent out on National Offer Day, parents are asked to accept or decline them by a certain date. The declined offers are re-offered. That is the "second round of admissions". You might call it something else in your area, and the re-offers may go out individually rather than as a batch, but the outcome is the same - more places are likely to come up before the appeal deadline, so there is no rush to appeal.

Also, as mentioned on another thread, all on-time appeals are heard and decided at the same time, so again, there is no rush to appeal. Waiting until nearer the appeal deadline will not disadvantage people.