State comprehensives North London

[STA1981]

Hi everyone - we live in Enfield where our DS goes to year 1 in a local state primary, DS2 is 2 years old and is in a childcare setting. DS1 is a bright boy, quite academically inclined and is usually ahead in this class. No pressure from us, he's just always been like that, eager to learn. We are looking at secondary options, and I know it is early, but most state secondaries have quite stern criteria these days for catchments, and for families to be living in those catchments for a good few years, so I feel we may have to start thinking now. We own our house and it won't be easy to just sell and buy again, so we might look at renting- not sure yet. What I wanted to know from this lovely community was your thoughts and recommendations for good state comprehensives in either Enfield or Barnet. Where we are at the moment, the comprehensives don't look good I'm afraid. I know there are selective schools like QE and Latymer, but we also want to be close to a good state comprehensive as Grammar schools are super competitive as we all know and there is a never a guarantee. The ones that I have heard a lot about are Alexandra Park School and Fortismere. Any thoughts from people, or other recommendations? DS1 is very academic and good at STEM. And yes, private schooling is not for us, couldn't afford it :) TIA for sharing your feedback.

I can't advise on schools OP but you do not need to have lived in a school's catchment area (if it even has one) for a good few years before you apply.

Or you don't at any state secondary I know. You need to be living in the area (actually living, not just renting out a property temporarily - this might be what you are thinking of?) on the date of application. If the school has an issue with people renting locally for a few months, it may ask for proof that you live where you say. But if you have actually moved, they go on your current address on 31 Oct of the year in question. Unless their application criteria say otherwise - but I'd be amazed.

So you've got a few years yet before you need to be in place - tho I agree it's never a bad idea to think about this.

DAOS in Potters Bar? Catchment places + exam for the clever.

Thank you, Clary, for your response. We were not thinking of temporary renting, rather renting on a long-term basis, hence thinking about it now rather than later. When we bought our current home, we did not even have kids and priorities were quite different! We never gave a thought to secondary schooling, which was in hindsight a mistake. I'm not at all impressed with the schools around where we currently are, hence thinking of a move. We could perhaps sell and buy again but that obviously is an expensive proposition.

Thank you, Moominmammacat ! Have looked at Potters Bar! DAOS is good, not so sure about PB as an area to live? Also rent/sale prices within the DAOS catchment are nuts!

What about N20 or N12, both postcodes mean you are eligible to apply for DAO. Plus there are some good state options in the area. I cannot comment on Fortismere or Alexandra Park, but the rental market would likely be more expensive than North Finchley for example. Also, not sure if a religious school would be an option, but Finchley Catholic has a very good reputation locally.

Fortismere and APS are both excellent secondary schools but the cost of renting or buying close by is expensive. And if you planned to go back to Enfield after renting the commute for your DC would be horrible. But maybe I've misunderstood your intentions?

Re Latymer and QEH parents I know who put their kids up for the exam and who got in were tutoring them from around year 1 or 2 to get them in.

You pay income tax on rental income which is not offset if you are higher rate tax payers. You also need hefty equity to convert to a buy to let mortgage (higher if higher rate tax payers). Mortgage rate is often higher

Year 1 is the nature/nurture year. Quite tricky to see how academic children are at this point as some are heavily nurtured but those who have not been but are bright often stream ahead in Y1. Interested that you know that is is ahead in his class- not something usually shared and still ver much whole class teaching in Y1.

You do have great schools on your doorstep. Enfield Grammar School, whilst not selective, is a great boys school. Highlands is very good. Kingsmead has gone down in recent years but I will say schools are only a headteacher away from being great or awful (Kingsmead case in point). I think you should consider what you want from a school, if it’s militant, soul crushing then you’ve always got Wren in Chase Farm or Ark John Keats on the other side of the borough.

My vote would be for EGS, they’ve got an active PTA and well respected reputation locally.

I would also recommend viewing different schools come September but I do worry you might be premature and move closer to a school for nothing.

If you own a property that was your child's main residence, but then rent somewhere nearer a school (even on a longer term basis), you risk the LEA disregarding the rental address -for example, Barnet explicitly say

"If you own a property, which is, or previously has been, used as a home address and you state that you are living at, and apply from a different address, we will consider the second address to be temporary. Therefore, we will use the address of the first property as the valid address for school admissions purposes .... . If you own or rent a property, and you buy or rent another property or live with family or friends temporarily, and state that this is your and your child’s home address, we will not use the second address for school admissions purposes."

So ideally you would dispose of the current property rather than keep it and rent elsewhere.

Thank you for your feedback and recommendations, everyone. Much appreciated

Thank you @Ametora - it is interesting indeed. And of course, children change as they grow, so who knows where his interests will lie in a few years' time. He's just always been a precocious child from the start, but I try to keep him interested in lots of other things than books, sports, for example. But I feel that if academics is where his natural interest is, then I should support him as he navigates his way through the education system.

Thank you, @PatriciaHolm , that's very helpful to know

Many thanks, @CostaDelOrchard , will surely look into EGS and others you have mentioned

Just a few thoughts:

5 years away from your DS1 going to secondary. A lot can change in 5 years time, school wise and admittance criteria...

Any good comprehensive school leads to crazy prices for houses within the catchment area, not only for DAO in Potters Bar.

I was told by someone that a good school their DC1 went to would not allow under sibling policy for younger DCs, if you moved out of the catchment area after your first child is in. That would mean "renting for a very long time), not everyone would like the idea.

Have you looked into Wren Enfield? I would look at Highlands school N21 or Ashmole N14 - both very good schools
APS is a very good school. Avoid Fortismere - it’s really gone downhill.
in Finchley check out Wren or Christ’s College (not religious despite the name)
For selective schools there’s QE Boys, Latymer and DAOS.

DAO catchment is tiny, like two streets and you pay a £100k premium for it.
Potters Bar is a Hertfordshire town so it’s not living in north London- depends if that’s right for you.

Thank you, @geoger that's very helpful information

Hello @STA1981 - interesting thread! Not much advice really but just wanted to say that we’re also in Enfield and it sounds like we’re in a very similar boat to you - our DD, currently in Year 1, also seems very academically able, and like you were not overly impressed with any of our secondary options (I’ve lived in Enfield for many years, went to school here, have taught locally myself and have lots of teacher friends and friends with teenage children, so I have a fair bit of background knowledge).

FWIW we are planning to look at secondaries during the next round of open days in the autumn, and will be looking both within Enfield and further afield. Despite DD being high attaining, I don’t think I’d be inclined to put her through the intense hothousing/tutoring that would be necessary for Latymer or DAO (and as it stands we can’t apply to the latter anyway as our current postcode is out of catchment). So it looks at present as if a move out of Enfield might be on the cards for us.

I know it sounds ridiculously early to be thinking of this stuff, and many people will probably tell you that it is, but in my experience (and that of many of my friends) leaving these considerations until Year 4/5, when secondary applications are more imminent is often too late - especially if you think you may need to move. I know schools change over time, but I’ve spoken to so many school parents this year who wish they’d tutored/moved/started looking earlier and now feel ‘stuck’.

Thank you so much @TempsPerdu for sharing your thoughts. Sometimes, I receive very critical, judgmental and negative feedback from folks when I talk about this, though people on this thread have been very kind and helpful. I did not go to school in the UK, hence for me there is an added layer of learning about the education system here, and I am trying to figure it out, and do my best for my children, which is what all of us hope to do. I did not have many friends and colleagues with children when my husband and I bought our house, and we didn't know much about catchments. Lukcily, we ended up being close to a decent, not outstanding, but a really nice, good school with a warm and caring community around it. DS is doing very well at that school, but I think at primary level most schools are ok, unless something has gone really wrong with a school. It is at the secondary level where their lives are changing so much, and it would be good to have a supporting environment that also challenges them to do their best. That's all I am looking for and have not found it in the schools I have seen.

Your message gives me some reassurance that I'm not being crazy thinking about this early on. Will surely get into the next round of open days to get a feel of the schools that people have kindly suggested in this thread.

Thank you very much!

Starting to think about it is not a bad thing. Being informed and good planning make a good deal of difference.

But I'd advise stay informed but don't commit until year 3. That's probably a good balance between getting prepped early and retaining the flexibility in case situation changes.

Average head teacher stay in a school about 8 years apparently. And things do change in a school with any new head: style and focus. School fundings are tightened too. A lot to evolve at the national level in the next 3-5 years.

Still not sure about the idea of renting, as lots of excellent schools try to make sure there's a fairer playing field: with a property you own yet rent near the school may not be acceptable to certain LA. But there must be people who are doing it. Not sure how.

Thank you, Rekka. Lot of food for thought! But honestly, I am so disappointed in the schools I have seen around me that I have to have a plan! Thank you for your suggestions

Yes I definitely agree with @Rekka that schools can often change a lot with a new Head, and that its optimal to hang on until slightly closer to the time to see what happens.

In our specific case we need to get going a bit earlier than that as we’re contemplating a fairly significant move out of London and also want to allow ample time to settle DD into a new school before she moved on to secondary; having taught a fair few children who transferred in Year 5 I found there often wasn’t enough time for them to slot into a class and find a new circle of friends before having to move on again a year or so later.

Realistically our two local choices are either Wren Academy (DD’s primary is a ‘feeder’ for them) or Highlands. We will look at both but Wren, I suspect, will be far too restrictive and authoritarian for our sensibilities (as a pp said, it has a reputation for being rather soul-crushing and joyless and I’ve never met a child who enjoyed going there). I’m not keen on the school site/lack of grounds either - it feels very stark and hemmed in.

Highlands I think is much more nurturing and pastorally strong, but I know quite a few families with children there currently and they’re all pretty meh about it - don’t actively hate it but don’t love it either. And neither Wren nor Highlands is strong enough on the Arts for us personally - ideally we want somewhere where art/music/drama is valued and of a consistently high standard. In the past that would have been Latymer, but its ridiculously competitive to get in there nowadays and I’m not sure whether even there music etc is given the high status it once was.