Henrietta Barnett vs SPGS - question for those who had a similar choice

[Optionz]

DD has an offer from SPGS and has sat the 2nd round assessment for Henrietta Barnett school - we live in catchment so she will likely get an offer.

Current school is an all through private school - perhaps a notch below SPGS academically.

For parents who had a similar choice - what are some data points that moved the needle for you in deciding? The obvious points, of course, would be

1. School fees- these may be manageable for spgs right now, but not sure of the impact of changes in tax, policy etc.
2. Commute - longer for SPGS - about an hour on public transport vs about 25 mins for Henrietta Barnett. No intention to relocate.

How about aspects like

1. Needing to significantly 'top up' academics and / or extra-curricular activities yourself or via tutoring for either school (I am extremely time poor and in general want to minimize having to organise this)
2. Parent community - input / work expected
3. Ethos of school and children - we are a 'middle class' first generation immigrant family - nowhere near the general levels of wealth i see in our current school. Earned income, no inheritance.

What else should I be thinking of? We will not qualify for a bursary anywhere.

DD has always studied in a private school so far (state primaries weren't great where we live). My general stance right now is- should she not get on well at Henrietta Barnett, it would be easier for her to move back to the private system rather than the other way around. She is very bright and sat for the SPGS exams on a whim since many of her friends were, without any prep outside whatever she does at school. So I do trust her ability. Her preference is to stay on at current school because most of her classmates will continue (also a very academic school).

I want to do the best for her, but the decision doesn't seem to be very straightforward right now. I would hugely appreciate understanding how others went about a similar decision.

OP your current private school (or an equivalent one in north London) probably has enough data points to evaluate these three school options from their past years. You would likely know the course of the movement.

I believe it is not so much about the girls or their talents, but rather about the parent peer influence and pressures.

I guess I’d be thinking of your daughter’s enjoyment? She’s obviously very competent, and if she’s already at a very good school, and wishes to stay, I’d keep her there if you can afford it, unless either of the other two offer extra-curriculars she would like to do and then I’d be guided by her. Even if SPGS has better results, at this level it’s much of a muchness.

In previous years, some children from her current school leave for SPGS and for boarding schools (or relocate to another city altogether). Very few leave for grammar. But I don't think that determines what we will decide in this instance.

You can certainly opt for a different choice for your DD depending on any reasons you think it is important for your instance.

I supposed it is hard for parents with similar choice before give you more factors or reasons, as you already considered all those. It is all about how you and your DD weight in each factors. This could be different for individuals.

There are also the consensus or data points from your school for those with similar choices which you asked for. There is nothing fishy or odd.

Also, if you think the current level of wealth of your current school is already high. You won’t see any betterment in the socio economic conditions at SPGS, which has one of the most expensive day school fees in London.

“Ethos of school and children - we are a 'middle class' first generation immigrant family - nowhere near the general levels of wealth i see in our current school. Earned income, no inheritance.”

In the current climate, I would be taking the grammar place, without a doubt. It won’t come back. Has she seen the school on a tour and what were her thoughts?

Firstly, the next Government does not like private schools. Secondly, the uni admissions in Britain is a bit anti private schools too. Thirdly, you have paid your taxes and it is your right to take the state place. Fourthly, kids come out of uni now having to pay 9 per cent extra tax for 40 years and the difference in their outcomes is not just education anymore, but asset privilege aka housing deposit and no student debt.
Fifthly, in London it is easy to top up extra curricular although the top grammars have good offerings anyway.

Have you got any other children or just the one DD? That is always a tricky business too, making it fair for all children.

Thank you, @Araminta1003 - very succinctly put.

Even speaking as someone who has two kids thriving at a brilliant and very competitive London private, I would say - go for Henrietta Barnett! The fees have increased year after year since we started, to the point they are now absolutely crippling for us - and it's only going to get worse when labour add VAT.

I can't totally regret it as the kids have done very well and are very happy, BUT I wish we'd looked at grammar options before we went down this road. Our lives would be a lot less stressful - and we won't be in a position to help them later on after funding all this.

As someone who faced a very similar dilemma in the past, I would recommend: if you can comfortably pay the fees, keep the current school as that’s your DD’s preference, there’s no point in longer commute, and shelling out more for something insignificant that might not even materialized… If the fees are a strain, opt for HBS but brace yourself for a very different atmosphere and prepare a lot of time and efforts for extracurriculars. The grass always appears greener on the other side.

Also, if you are time poor, bear in mind the longer holidays in the private sector....

Henrietta Barnett, no question. Save the money you would have spent for uni or a house deposit.

It’s a great school and it’s closer. And I say that as someone who really rates SPGS.

More affordable price for term holidays.

I don't have much money left for holidays after the fees are paid, to be honest. It is also not possible to plan finances for the next 7 years (no trust fund type situation here). So Henrietta Barnett seems to be the logical choice at present.

My friends’ daughters have mixed experiences at HBS. The girls are generally nice and studious, but the teaching is mediocre, the staff turnover is high, the previous head left after a year, some of the girls miss school because of the long commute, a lot of external tutoring, and there are limited sports offerings. They are looking to switch to another school for sixth form next year.

I'd stay where you are - shorter commute, known community, it's where she's happy - do not see the benefits of travelling further and paying more for SPGS and fabulous as HBS is unless she falls in love with it I wouldn't risk the change from private to state, however excellent the school

SPGS you go for the network, both parent and child, and lifestyle if you can comfortably keep up.

HB if you are not a pretentious social climber and just want a school that will push your child to the best of their ability.

NLCS mum here, I am aware that every year there are a number of girls from our junior school who sit for both SPGS and HB exams. A good portion of them are successful, and some eventually transfer to SPGS, while few move to HB mainly for financial reasons.

The parents who opt for this route are typically the ones who strongly believe in competition and selection-based education to the extreme. NLCS is probably the most selective 4+/7+ girls independent in London, and SPGS/HB is the next one at 11+. Some parents have the 11+ in mind as the next goal when they enrol their daughters at NLCS at 4 or 7, with NLCS senior as a backup option. I hate to generalise, but this has been for years and it is certainly not just one or two isolated cases.

I don’t think any of these choices are inherently right or wrong. I do think that you will make your life easier if you choose a school where the majority of the parents share your values.

Based on what you described your financial situation, it seems that private school is really a stretch for you. I’m not sure if you have another child to consider, but I’d visit HB school again to get your DD’s opinion. If she likes it, maybe it is the choice for her.

Just a couple of comments based on what I see above -

"SPGS you go for the network, both parent and child, and lifestyle if you can comfortably keep up" - SPGS is not a business school like Harvard Business School where you go for the network that will enhance your career or the child's career in the long run. Don't choose a school for the "network". That will be a big mistake and not be productive in the long run. I would in fact stay away from a school where parents believe that their child's school should be chosen by others because of the network they offer.

Agreed with "push your child to the best of their ability", but also choose a school that will be nurturing and not burn out the child because of pressure. That can be any of the schools mentioned here - SPGS, HBS or the current school. Mental and emotional wellbeing (of both parent and child) is more important than choosing a school that is "perhaps a notch above", especially when financial constraints need to be considered.

A bright child should do well in any of these schools.

I honestly don't think you should pick any school for the network. It may not live up to what you think it might provide (and I say that as a parent at SPGS). We had a similar choice, in that DD had places at SPGS and Tiffin Girls. We chose SPGS for a few reasons, but a big one was curriculum (in our case the languages offering and the creative opportunities were what tipped the balance). So if you have a feeling about what your child might be good at and enjoy later on, it might be worth digging a bit deeper into the opportunities available in whatever field that might be.

Speaking as someone who went to a similar school to SPGS, the "network" means fuck all. The days of the old school tie are long gone. I would completely discount anything like this from the equation.

Network? What school talking about here? Eton?

I am the very antithesis of a social climber and would be put off by the "network" value of a school. I am facilitating DD meeting some girls who are a year or two ahead at HB so she can find out first hand about the school. Sadly, we were too late to enroll for a school visit last year but will attend the offer holders' event next week, should a place be offered.

Thank you for all the opinions here - much appreciated.

Thanks for your DM, OP. Thought I would reply here as there might be others similarly situated.

To start, I agree that there's no wrong choice - both schools are excellent academically (and probably your D's current school as well).

It was a very difficult decision for us but in the end we chose SPGS over HBS. We asked our D which one she preferred and she didn't express a strong view to me, although I learned later that she had mentioned to my SO that she liked the "greener" feel of HBS.

We were not keen on paying SPGS fees (200k+ over 7 years) but didn't want to short-change D's education for this reason (in the end, I think we had arrived at the view - partly informed by people familiar with both schools, including 1 or 2 who had attended both - that SPGS was the stronger school academically (beyond public examination results)).

At the time, I was also concerned about government ministers' tendencies to tinker with state schools, sometimes seemingly based on whims rather than on robust evidence and I thought that a private school would provide greater stability.

Our D stayed at SPGS for 7 years but developed mixed feelings toward it over time, partly due to the intensity of an all-girls environment (in that sense, this could have also happened at HBS) and partly to the way a certain department was managed. But I think she would acknowledge that she received an excellent education at SPGS and was particularly stretched (in a positive way) by her "OP" (Old Paulina) teachers.

One worry that I had about SPGS going in was that our D might struggle to keep up (she did not attend an academically selective primary school) but she coped fine and didn't need any extra tutoring during her time there. What I think is a bit sad for most SPGS girls (my D falls into this category) is that they are often overshadowed by a few "superstars", whereas at most other schools they probably would have received greater recognition. As a result, a good number seem to leave SPGS with unwarranted insecurities about their abilities.

In retrospect, I don't know if we had made the absolutely "right" decision. Having said that, I am grateful that our D received a top-notch education at SPGS and, importantly, could be her quirky self there without being ostracised or bullied (that was another of my worries). Perhaps she would have done equally well at HBS - and, as an aside, we actually feel we would probably have meshed better with HBS parents - but we will never know...

If you are really on the fence, I'd suggest choosing HBS now and seek a transfer to SPGS if things don't work out as hoped (this seems easier than the reverse).

Best of luck with your decision!

"If you are really on the fence, I'd suggest choosing HBS now and seek a transfer to SPGS if things don't work out as hoped (this seems easier than the reverse)."

In year transfer it is easier for private. Think for 16+ it is easy at both ways.

Thank you for your very considered response, @ASingleJourney

I would agree with this. HBS is not a cheap version of a private school. In fact if you are coming from the private sector you will be shocked. It’s a self-fulfilling prophecy cohort. Smart kids, pushy narrow demographic parents, gets good results. It’s actually nothing to do with the school.