Maximum class size KS3

[Cornishbelle]

Please can anyone advise me if there is a maximum class size limit in KS3 in England?

Thanks

No there isnt

There isnt but at my school we cap at 32 max in a class as a lot of our classrooms can only fit 32 seats!

Usually just how many kids you can fit in the room, although you can resort to 3 to a desk if pushed for space. Anything over 40 is obviously pushing it but it's not unheard of.

Why, how big is the class you are having a problem with?

Unfortunately there is no legal limit for secondary.
Although we often start off with 31 in a class in year 7 they do tend to reduce over time as pupils get streamed. The average is 22.4 but 30 is common

Thanks, I did a bit of googling and it seemed to be no limit but I wanted to check.

The reason I asked is a bit unusual probably. My son is asking to move form group (Yr 7 so been there since September) due to a good proportion of the class causing low level disruption which is affecting his learning and his mental health has started to suffer. The teachers have tried to deal with this with the usual methods but sounds like this is ineffective and it's really getting my son down

He has become more withdrawn over the last few weeks and we finally got him to open up about this last night.

What makes things worse is that on starting school there was a last minute move from the year group he was allocated as one of his primary friends parents complained that he was not with any friends so they moved my sons form group, citing a computer error 😐

I outlined everything last night in an email to his tutor, copied in head of year. I have heard nothing but my son has come home really upset as his teacher jas said he can't be moved there is no room in the class he was hoping to join and he will have a word with the teachers to keep an eye on the trouble makers.

Apparently I may get a phonecard tomorrow from the tutor.

How would honestly handle this?

Should add he's not normally someone who suffers with anxiety or social skills, he is very conscientious though and loves school (until now)

*phonecall

They're usually limited by the actual number of chairs and tables.

Honestly I'd handle it by chats about resilience at home. About keeping his head down and cracking on. About working and hopefully a place will open up in the set above.

I think a move of form group is unlikely in the circumstances you describe. If every well behaved child asked to be moved from a class where there was low level disruption going on, you'd end up with classes of 50 'good' kids and then micro sets of pupils with behavioural issues and/or SEND, which wouldn't be fair on anyone, teachers or pupils!

Schools tend to be wary of opening the floodgates in some way unless there's really good justification (serious bullying, an official diagnosis of some kind where a change in class setting is recommended).

I suspect without evidence of serious bullying involving kids from this form they are unlikely to do what you want.
The class may well be full, that may be a truth but even if it’s a bit of a fudge it’s a difficult precedent to set. What makes him believe that the other class doesn’t have similar issues just with different kids. In my experience all classes have some element of this, some kids who are challenging and disruptive.
There are difficult people where you go.

The school are big on publicising how many behaviour measures have been handed out each week for each class and his class is always around triple the amount of the others apparently.

In terms of sets, only one subject has been set so far and he is in top set for that, from what I understand two other core subjects will be set by the end of year 7 but no other subjects will be put into sets

I totally understand the need for balanced classes and SEND inclusivity, but this sounds like generalised disruptive behaviour that stops the class again and again and results in a massive reduction in the amount of teaching time

We've had conversations about focusing and cracking on, but when the teacher is being frequently talked over or cooking ingredients are being thrown around how can you ignore when the lesson has to physically stopped?

I'm keen to advocate for my son, but not sure what reasonable solution there is?

If this class is a particular problem, then the solution is not to move out the nice kids whose parents kick up a fuss, but to move out one or two of the most problematic ones, and/or get some serious behaviour intervention going on to support their teachers..

It's not that there's a maximum class size but that they'll want the groups to be the same size.

They can't move kids out of classes just because they don't like the class that they're in - and that includes because the class that they are in is poorly behaved. One kid moves, then all the other parents want their kid moved out too. You can't just swap them all with kids from other classes.

If there's poor behaviour in the class that doesn't appear to be dealt with effectively, then you can ask the school what is being put in place to minimise impact on your child's education - is the school behaviour policy crap, or is it not being followed?

Although there are no legal limits, there can be practical limits in terms of classroom space, risk assessments for practical subjects such as DT, Science, etc and most schools will have a number in mind which is an absolute top limit for a class (often 32-34).

I have also taught a child with complex disabilities, and they had a risk assessment that said they should not be in a class of more than 30 due to the need to accommodate a TA and certain medical equipment in the room.

When the form tutor calls, I would ask how many students are in the class your DS wants to move into and if there are any classes smaller than this. It may be that the class your DS wants to move into is already larger than the others for some reason, and the school doesn't want the classes to become unbalanced. However, if the school is very full, there may not be any capacity to move at the moment.

I would definitely try to speak to a member of staff directly.

In dd school they have done what pp said and moved the badly behaved kids.

The school behaviour policy seems to do nothing! They are constantly sent to the behaviour unit.

Personally think they should be excluded

When they say ‘no room’ they probably mean no more space in the room. Most classrooms can only fit 32 children.

So things have moved on since my last post, and just prior to Easter my son came home excited to hear there is a space in the other class and he would be offered first refusal (this info from his current form tutor). He was told to think it over during the Easter break and to advise of his decision. He has spoken to his tutor, and was waiting to hear of arrangements but this morning I have had a call from the Head of year advising there is no longer a space due to various other moves that have taken place - safeguarding and incoming students where mentioned.

I'm at my wits end and don't want to think how my son is feeling after being told this this morning at school, he has been so much brighter knowing he could move and now it has been changed again.

Going to speak to him tonight my husband thinks we should complain. It feels like they are not taking his concerns seriously as he does well enough but the effect in his mental health is clear to see at home.

I would be really annoyed at school telling him he could move and then going back on that. That’s really not on and such poor communication on the schools behalf. I think you need to really emphasise the impact this form and this change of mind about him moving is having on his well-being so they take his situation seriously