11plus - information on Latymer Upper and Belmont Mill Hill

[RoseAnt]

We have narrowed down our choice of secondary schools for our DC to Latymer Upper and Belmont Mill Hill. Both are reachable from where we live and both have pros and cons and I would be very grateful to anyone who would be willing to share any experience at either of those schools.
It seems that LU has very strong academic results but is huge and I worry that DC would feel lost and not looked after. I have also heard wild rumours of partying, bullying and woke culture, not sure if true?
On the other hand Belmont seems very nurturing but Mill Hill does not seem academically challenging. I wonder if an academic child would be stretched there?

I don't know anything about Mill Hill but have a happy DS at LU.
It feels big and busy but the number of DCs in a year is actually quite a bit less than the big boys schools- I think it feels busier because the site is a bit more 'urban' and the playing fields aren't on site.
They do a good job helping the children meet others and have small tutor groups for pastoral purposes so I don't think DCs will get lost. Certainly whenever I've had to get in touch with a tutor/ head of year etc they've got back to me very promptly.
Haven't heard of any bullying problems. i imagine it would be dealt with swiftly.
Don't think there's any more of a party culture than at any other school. There's probably a few who are in the London school party gang but definitely not huge numbers. DS and his friends (girls and boys) certainly not partying hard! I think that's a throwback to quite a few years ago. Certainly amongst families I know there are lots more wild parties amongst the boarding school pupils.
I also don't think they are more 'woke' than any other school. Just a pretty modern urban school with a mix of families and backgrounds.
I'd go to offer holder events and see how you feel.
I don't think the 2 schools are comparable at all though in terms of exam results so assuming your son is pretty bright that may be important to you.
Good luck with your decision!

I know a very happy teen at Mill Hill, but don't know much beyond that. She's a lovely, very well-mannered girl and loves the school (has been there since the junior school).

I know a teen girl at LU who says the pastoral care for girls is terrible. She is unhappy/too thin and the boys get away with murder.

My DD is at LU. She’s having a great experience and has lots of lovely friends. Our experience is that they have high expectations for behaviour and deal promptly with issues. My DD finds most of the boys annoying, but it’s age appropriate. If anything, it brings the girls together in ways that have felt less toxic than at all girls schools. I’ve been amazed at how well the majority of teachers she’s had know her, and the proactive stance of the pastoral and leadership teams. For example, our family is indirectly impacted by one of the wars going on. The pastoral team got in touch with students impacted, on all sides, to ask how they can help. Then they asked parents to come in or chat by phone to double check their child’s experiences. I have an older child at another school and there has been no outreach to either pupils or parents - and honestly that’s ok but I really admire LU’s approach. They stress over and over again that they want their school to be a happy and safe space for all their school community members. DD knows kids across the age groups and socially is very happy there. Re woke culture: it is progressive and asks kids to be respectful of each other. Apparently Nigel Farage is coming in to speak (have heard that from another parent, nothing from school) and some kids have complained. LU’s response, again from what I’ve heard, is that you have to be able to listen respectfully to people you may not agree with and learn how to engage. If woke means respecting a wide range of opinions, then yes. If you mean a cancel culture, then no. We’re very happy with LU on the two fronts you ask about.
The only downside is that the school is big. While this is great bc all kids find their people, it means that getting roles in school plays or on trips is a bit harder as in these ways the school operates as if it’s a smaller school. I’m also not keen on the coach rides to Chiswick or Wood Lane for sports once a week, but if DD went to a school with playing fields she’d have an hour long commute each way as we live centrally.

Go for Latymer Upper, it's a much better school than Mill Hill/Belmont, I can't believe you are even asking. They are in different leagues and teaching at LU is very good.

I can't imagine being within a comfortable commuting distance of both to be honest! Mill Hill/Belmont is in a very different league to LU as well.

I think you're always likely to get unhappy children wherever they are but DS is friendly with a lot of girls and I have chatted to a lot of parents as was thinking of it for DD and in terms of pastoral etc they are all happy. One has actually has school contact her because they were worried about her daughter being too skinny. ( She's naturally very slim and eats like a horse). A couple of others have been long term sick and apparently school were amazing.
No school is perfect but I genuinely don't think it's full of thin unhappy girls! ( nor do the boys get away with more!)

How can you commute to both? Your poor child will be on the tube for hours. Or you’ll be driving for hours!

the traffic around latymer is really bad at school times FYI.

Have you got an offer from Latymer? If not I’d apply to several schools as Latymer is extremely competitive.

Latymer Upper no longer offer GCSEs - they have their own curriculum and you are effectively tied in to A level (or Year 9 then change to another school for GCSE) if you want to exit with any widely recognised qualification. Is that important to you?

OP all the wild rumors (i.e., wild partying, bullying, generation woke) about popular co-ed schools like LU are usually being spread on Mumsnet (and sadly in RL too) during the "offer period" to deter people from picking those and hoping the places will free up on WL.

There is only a handful of top-rated academic co-ed schools at the moment (LU, Highgate, Alleyn) and the demand for those is very high, as co-education is now en vogue.

As LU is an academically selective school with children aiming at top exam marks so the amount of partying will be generally less than in any other less academically selective school.

and "woke kids" dont pick particular schools, you find some in any school.

One important thing, consider commute as well, these two schools in completely different directions

schools and universities do not penalise kids for not having exam results for exams not offered at their schools. My DD is too old to benefit from the no GCSEs but I know other children from a wide range of curriculum offerings who have had no trouble getting into highly selective 6th forms or into universities without GCSEs. They are nationally recognised exams and widely understood to be outdated in terms of 21st century skills.

I spoke to my DDs head about the GCSEs as they take a lot of new children into their sixth form. She said it wasn't a problem as they have children coming from abroad etc who wouldn't have taken GCSEs and they mainly look at results in entrance exams and interviews.
Very few leave for sixth form anyway but it really shouldn't be an issue anyway.
Although obviously the dropping of GCSEs is something to consider!

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience, extremely helpful.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience in detail, I am glad that your DD is having a great experience and the school seems to have been very sensitive in the way they reacted to the tragic current world events.

I think you are right, our main question mark comes from the fact that the school feels huge. The 11+ experience there was frightening with queues of people going around the building, more aggressive interview day than in other schools; we haven't talked to any adult during the process (tour conducted by kids as in other schools but no adult proactively talked to us, obviously I do understand that they are not trying to attract any more people as they are so hugely popular). Overall it was very different to how other schools handled it and made us question what the experience would be for an 11 year old joining.

As might be evident from my original question😂I did not grow up in the UK and as a foreigner the London school system is very difficult to understand. My home country has a less selective approach to education before university and I am struggling to understand what it means when a school is referred to as non academic: it seems to me that with the amount of selection involved in the 11+ it is only natural that hugely selective schools who only take the brightest kids would have the best marks at the end of secondary school.
But does it mean that if you are bright kid you will not be given the opportunity to reach your potential in a less "academic" school or does it mean that you will be amongst a lower number of people with top marks at your school?

So different in school culture and academics, does your DC have a preference? Do you have offers or thinking of applying? If you thinking of applying maybe have a few more schools to cover all bases and exam styles. Where are you located? Travel time and types, we know kids travelling longer distance but find it quicker due to travel options.

@RoseAnt - are you going to any offer holders events at LU? Well worth going to the evening event and one of the small Head's tours.
Did you go to an Open Day? There were lots of staff and current parents you could have talked to then. The 11plus day was overwhelming for us as well- hundreds queuing round the block! Although nothing compared to Tiffin!

@RoseAnt From my experience with the schools (currently 3 DCs in 3 different schools and we changed a few schools along the way), Id say in general you are right, "more academic" school usually means that they are more selective at intake, hence high(er) percentage of kids will excel further down the route (GSCE, A levels). The demographics in the selective schools also mean you get more families who will put all the efforts and resources (i.e., extra tutoring) for their kids to excel. This may have little bearing on your particular child who may well excel in Mill Hill or any other less selective school. My kids are not at Mill Hill but from what I've heard kids are happy there and I know some kids who turned down some top league schools located far away to go to Mill Hill to stay local.

Yes we are going to all offer holders events at all the schools and hope it will shed a bright light!

Thank you that is a very interesting perspective !

Yes, do go to Open days for both.
We know US families not going for the super selective schools, as their kids would shine without too much hothouse vibe and so they did get offers to Princeton, Yale, Columbia. They seem to have a long term viewpoint for their applications and getting records of being top 10%, leading in clubs or academic clubs Chemistry Society etc.

It's totally different viewing a school when you have an offer so I'm sure it'll help!
I'd also think about how easy the journey is for before and after school activities. Early starts for sports, especially rowing, late nights for drama, music etc are all things to consider for every school.

Hello everyone

We got an offer for both Latymer Upper and Godolphin and we're finding hard to decide

Is there anyone here attending these schools who want to give me some insight?

Pro and cons?

Reputation wise (in view of university) which school fo you think is better?

Many thanks 😊

You can’t go wrong with either school academically or reputation at the university level. Your DD and you should decide based on feel, coed or not, and about GCSEs as entering Y7s at LUS will not sit the full range. Congrats to your DD for having such great choices. There are pros to both schools and few cons, so it’s very much down to what your family prefers.

Personally we are very happy with LUS and wish the GCSE changes came sooner to benefit our DD’s year group.

My DD is at LUS and so happy. It’s been amazing since year 7. She’s closer to the end now and I can’t fault it. She has a big group of friends from very different backgrounds and they are all very grounded. It’s academic and the teachers are passionate about their subjects; they’re really supportive with lots of online resources. The children are also supportive of each other and have a healthy competition. The new programme to replace GCSEs is exciting, sadly we’ll miss out. Unis are looking at A levels predominantly and I think LUS will have equivalent certificates for subjects.
As for partying, it’s all quite tame for London. And my older children went to different schools that had a bigger party culture.
Definitely go to the offer holder events, you’ll see the school on a school day with the Head touring you (new Head who is lovely and friendly).
It is a big school but all the buildings have different purposes so the children are quite spread out and form groups are small (16/17).
And make sure your child chooses a school that they’re happy to go to; really important!

I've said this on here before but the size of the school (It's not that big compared to many other secondary schools both state and private) is a red herring. The children are taught in small classes and have small tutor groups, the tutors are totally on top of things, I don't think I've ever waited longer than an hour for one of them to phone me when there's been an issue eg once when elder dc was ill and missed a lot of school and I wanted to explain the situation to him. Because of the size people seem to find their group of like-minded friends, no one overall culture prevails. My dc certainly weren't/aren't in a party culture, both were in very studious groups that had fun together but in very "safe" ways - my own schooldays at another big London school were far, far wilder.

As for woke, it's a nonsense, unless you mean the school encourages pupils to respect people of other faiths/cultures/sexualities - I don't think there's a school in London where such behaviour is discouraged. Some pupils invited Nigel Farage in - I Imagine as a bit of a laugh - the school takes the view that his views aren't illegal so if people want to hear them and engage (respectfully) that should be their decision.