Bursary waitlist for 11+

[Reach4stars]

I applied to some very highly selective/competitive secondary independent schools in London for my daughter (City of London Girls, St Paul's, JAGS), and also applied to a non-selective independent school. I definitely need financial assistance if she were to go to any of these schools. We have received acceptances from all the schools we applied to, but only the non-selective school has offered a 95% bursary. All the other schools acknowledge that I need financial assistance, but have said there aren't enough funds available this year, except one who has waitlisted us for a 75% bursary. So the rest have all said they're happy to accept my daughter if we pay.

Q1. If I raise the funds this year by remortgaging my home ( I think I'd only get enough to cover <1 year of fees) and get my daughter in to the most selective school, could they review my financial position from next year onwards if I reapplied for a bursary once in the school?
Q2. Has anyone ever been on a bursary waiting list, and how likely is it that you would get a bursary?

Please any advice/experience would be most welcome. I'm sure someone will have been in this situation before. I'd like her to attend a selective school as she's really bright and these schools would keep her challenged.

I notice that the OP has chosen not to engage with the other posters questioning the veracity of their original post (ie that their DD was offered a place at these schools but was denied a bursary even though they "qualify" for one).

If you're reading this in future, and are thinking of applying for a bursary to any of these schools (or any other top tier schools) please don't be put off by this kind of misinformation on MN.

It is simply not the case that girls get offered places at top tier schools and then are rejected because there are insufficient bursary funds. All these schools are very good at fundraising and many are actively trying to increase the number of bursary students.

Every year on MN there are parents claiming that their child didn't get a place at a top indie because they'd applied for a bursary. That's not how it works. If your child passes the exams and interviews to be offered a place, and the parents meet the financial requirements for a bursary, then a place - and a bursary - will be offered.

Is that how it works, though?

I agree that being on a waiting list for a bursary sounds odd. I also agree that schools won't not offer a child a place because they have applied for a bursary: if a child does well enough in the exams and interview, then a place will be offered, regardless of the financial situation of the parents.

But, there are many cases where people have been offered places, but have not been given bursaries even though they applied for one. Private schools don't have unlimited bursary funds - most simply won't have enough money to give a bursary to everyone that applies for one and passes the entrance exams.

And so some rationing does happen. The common thinking is that bursaries are allocated to those who qualify for one, based on performance in the entrance exams.

So if your child is, say, the 75th highest scoring child, it could easily be that the bursary fund has been fully allocated to higher-performing bursary applicants before they get to that child. The child will be offered a place, because they scored highly enough, but not a bursary.

I don't know how SPGS manages their bursary process, but I would be amazed if they had enough money to give everyone who was offered a place a bursary if they had applied for one. Not unless they only have a handful of bursary allocations each year!

As I've said, SPGS have said repeatedly - and proudly - in many public forums that everyone who is offered a place and needs financial assistance will get some. There are countless videos on their website and on their social media sites making precisely this point. What most schools tend to do is manage the bursary pot to accommodate everyone; ie someone might hope for a 90% bursary but be awarded 70% instead so that another family can be offered 20%. Then it's up to each individual family whether that level of assistance is something they can work with.

If you're still maintaining that SPGS has a bursary waitlist, or that your DD was offered a place and you were told that you "qualified" for a bursary but that the funds had run out, then I'm afraid I just don't believe that's true.

I am always amazed how much false information is shared on bursary threads. SPGS may have enough funds - and I think LU probably as well - but there are DEFINITELY highly selective schools where you could gain a place but no funds available for bursaries (LEH, KGS, Emanuel etc. are definitely in that category - they do not have enough funds to all bursary applicants who are offered a space).

Secondly, the OP did not say her daughter was accepted to SPGS. She named a few schools that she applied to and then said she was offered a few places with and without bursaries. I assume they applied to SPGS and were not offered a place there but were offered places elsewhere.

It is so unhelpful to question that someone could have been offered a place at a good school but not offered a bursary. Unfortunately, it is very common.

@chilledparent27 it says this on their website "Bursaries are offered for students joining us at both 11+ and 16+, although the number of bursaries available each year is at the discretion of the school and will vary." So presumably not everyone gets one.

Sorry that was in reply to @11PlusCraziness

The OP categorically said (and I quote):

"I applied to some very highly selective/competitive secondary independent schools in London for my daughter (City of London Girls, St Paul's, JAGS)... We have received acceptances from all the schools we applied to

All the other schools acknowledge that I need financial assistance, but have said there aren't enough funds available this year, except one who has waitlisted us for a 75% bursary. So the rest have all said they're happy to accept my daughter if we pay."

The OP is very clearly claiming that they got an acceptance from SPGS, that they were told they qualified for a bursary, and were subsequently told that no funds were available. This is what I am questioning the veracity of.

@11PlusCraziness my bad, i had only read "we applied...", i hadn't seen "we got accepted everywhere"... other than SPGS though, the point stands though that the likes of KGS/Emanuel/LEH unfortunately cannot offer bursaries to all qualified applicants who pass the 11+. SPGS may be in a unique position because so few actually manage to pass the test (and it would be particularly hard for those truly unable to afford a single hour of tutoring)!

From SPGS's own website, as part of the bursary application process:

"Step 4: If your daughter is offered a place, you will be notified at the same time as to whether she will receive a bursary, and for what amount (provisional)."

This does not seem to be saying you definitely will get a bursary if you applied for one! Of course,it might mean that you might not qualify for one on financial grounds, but this is not clear from that wording.

As I said before, I have no idea how SPGS manage their bursary pot, and OK, I accept that maybe they do have enough cash to offer everyone a bursary who wants one. Which is amazing.

But you simply can't extrapolate that to say that all indie schools do this, because they don't! and every year there will be disappointed parents who receive an offer but no bursary, because although their child has done well enough to be offered a place, they have not placed high enough in the entrance exams. You only have to read through some threads on here to discover that this does in fact happen.

This shouldn't put people off applying to these schools - after all, if you don't apply, you definitely won't get a place! But it doesn't hurt to make people aware that they may end up disappointed, if only so that they don't get their DC's hopes up too much.

I haven’t had to deal with girls’ schools this century, but the boys’ public school from which my family received a 100% bursary (over recent years) states that if a boy is conditionally accepted, but the school subsequently cannot offer a sufficient bursary, the offer of a place will be withdrawn. It’s slightly terrifying but makes sense when you think about it.

@RockaLock @chilledparent27 Totally agree that every school will differ and I certainly don't claim to have knowledge of multiple schools. And I'm definitely not claiming that everyone who applies for a bursary at SPGS gets one! Obviously your financials have to meet the criteria for being in need of assistance. I just took umbrage at the OP's original post because I know it's definitely not the case at SPGS that if they tell you you qualify for a bursary and your DD gets an offer, they might then tell you that there are no funds available. The school are very clear that that just doesn't happen.

It's unclear what the OP's financial situation is, but if they've got turned down for a bursary at the three schools they cite (CLSG, SPGS and JAGS) it would suggest that perhaps they simply don't qualify as someone needing assistance.

Is state Grammar not an option ?

Don’t gamble with her future education if you can not afford the fees .

Think about year 7 and 8 in your local state school with another attempt to move for year 9 - ie an in year transfer into State Grammar or Private .

@11PlusCraziness is right about SPGS. I have also been told, by the High Mistress, that they have never turned anyone away on financial grounds.

In addition, I have been told (by a different staff member involved in the bursary process) that they are actively seeking to encourage more applications from students who would qualify for a bursary because they have more money available than bursary applicants. That doesn't mean they hand out money to people who don't need it. It means that if your financials are such that you would qualify for a bursary, you will get one of the appropriate amount for your personal financial circumstances provided you have passed the tests. They raised almost a million pounds this year for the bursary fund, just from parent/alumnae donations and are actively aiming to hugely increase the numbers of bursary students.

Further to this, they don't operate a bursary list and a non-bursary list for offers. There is just one list - did the child pass the exams etc or not? If yes, do they need assistance? This also direct from the High Mistress.

Having said all that, it is possible that the child is on the waitlist and would also qualify for a bursary. She will have to hope that enough people turn their places down. Some do get in from the waitlist each year.

Also, SPGS would not expect anyone to remortgage the main family home to pay fees. I know this from personal experience of the bursary process because I asked the question. The only case in which property might come into it is if there is eg a holiday home or other property that might potentially be liquidated to fund fees.

It is of course possible that other schools operate things differently and obviously I can only speak about the school that I have personal experience of. It seems counter-intuitive but actually I think a bright child has a better shot at a bursary from a big name school which is more likely to have the funds available.

Personally, I don't think OP should send her child to the non-selective school and definitely think a normal comprehensive (which will have a wide spread of ability including children capable of getting into very selective schools) would be more likely to provide her daughter with academic peers if grammar isn't an option.

If OP has been offered places but not bursaries, she should take from this that she is also unlikely to be offered a bursary in future unless her financial circumstances change significantly.

I'm another who agrees that the non-selective 25 in a year school doesn't sound likely to be the right fit for your daughter, or at least, not the best option available to you. Review your finances by all means, but don't commit to a route you can't afford.

We ran projections when our youngest started senior school (2 children on substantial boarding bursaries), that had our remaining savings running out halfway through his final year. That was a risk we could manage with continuing to try to improve my income, and hope for improved investment returns. We could probably have released enough on a remortgage in the worst case scenario, although we certainly weren't asked to consider doing so by school bursars, our capacity to increase borrowings was not substantial. As it turned out we did finish with a little spare. At least some of which was because they missed out on significant school trips due to covid!

What does paying fees with a 75% bursary look like for your lifestyle? Does it feel comfortable, a stretch, or extremely tight?

OP knows this hence applying for a bursary. It is what bursaries are for.

But if you're not offered one, or are not offered a large enough one, then surely you need a sensible state back up plan?

It's surely a huge gamble to assume a school will definitely offer you a 90%+ bursary, and the idea of remortgaging a house to try and strong arm a school into offering a bursary is insane.

I second this advice.

(I work in admissions in a selective independent school).

The 95% offer is a good one. I would accept that in your circumstances.

I wouldn’t accept a place at a non-selective school with only 25 pupils in a year if I wanted a selective place for my child. I would imagine the GCSE options will be very limited.

@Reach4stars What year is your daughter in now…have you applied for any grammars?

Sorry, I was seconding the advice about not paying fees for 1 year and then hoping that a bursary would kick in for Year 8. Don’t do this!

I wouldn’t accept the 95% bursary for the tiny school either, unless you really feel it would be an amazing fit for your DD.

Private schools can fund bursaries from a variety of sources such as:

• Alumni donations
• Corporate donations, such as CLSG from the City of London Corporation
• Investment income, such as from the ancient public schools' endowments
• Other current income, such franchise fees from foreign affiliates
• Full tuition fee payers

At most schools, however, there is a limit to how much they can raise for bursaries each year. These schools must have a mechanism to control bursary spending. If they don't limit bursary eligibility by imposing more stringent admissions requirements on children who can't pay the full tuition, the only other way I can think of is to reduce the level of family income or wealth at which bursaries become available. St Paul's School currently indicates on their website that support is available to families with incomes up to £126,000. I wonder up to what income or wealth level SPGS currently offers bursary support?

Just be aware about the school narrative, never "turned away based on financial ground "might just mean offer some one a place not based on financial situation, but still fee payable, maybe give you 5%-10% bursary on top. But in the end the parent turn away the offer due to their own evaluation of their financial grounds.

The SPGS website says it's £140K household income (obviously a family earning £135K are not going to be eligible for a full bursary). The majority of bursaries currently in operation in the most recently available public information are for full fee remission though, and these figures can be easily found on eg charity commission documents, accounts etc. I don't know where the income cut off lies for a full bursary.

"The majority of bursaries currently in operation in the most recently available public information are for full fee remission though"

Where can one find such public information? Is there a link? And how many in total are receiving bursary? Lastest figure I know is about 12% so assuming majority is above 6%? for full fee remission.

The latest annual accounts for SPGS say that in the 21/22 school year, 87 students were in receipt of bursaries, of which 56 were full fee remissions.

The accounts are available for anyone to view on the Companies House and Charity Commission websites.

Thanks. That is inline with the 12% number and the full fee remission is about 7%. The statitistic is similar to a lot of other selective London private schools.

I wonder what is the reason, if as the school claims, had difficulty to handout the bursary to the students? Not enough bright students in that part of London with family household income less than 140K?