Dropping English Literature

[SuperSue77]

Is English literature important for future life? My son is ASD/ADHD, great at maths, science, geography, has a reading age of 16/17+ but hates fiction and especially poetry. I see his future lying in computing/IT type industry for which he is already showing interest/aptitude.
He really struggles with school and the lessons he is not interested in, school are already allowing him to miss RS and art. To help him cope with the GCSEs he will want for the future, is dropping English Literature a reasonable idea? I know they do this at some special schools but my son is in mainstream, though on SEN register (no EHCP). So long as he has English Language GCSE he should be okay surely? He got 114 and 117 in his reading and SPAG SATS if it is of any relevance.

It isn't needed for the future.
But
I would be somewhat surprised if you could persuade the school to let him drop it officially.
For one thing, it is taught together with English Language GCSE with to some extent the skills in one assisting with the other.
For another thing it counts as a core subject.

They can't make him revise or turn up to the exams though.

OTOH they are clearly being flexible already, so I may be wrong.

A mainstream school can’t let him drop English Literature. It is a core subject and there are now penalties for schools who allow students to drop it.

Also, most schools don’t teach them as discreet subjects. What will he do in the English lessons while they are doing the work on the Literature texts?

My ds was similar and I would have let him drop eng lit if it had been recommended. Surprisedly he ended up getting a 6-4 lit-lang so unless dropping eng lit had helped with eng language then he'd have been looking at a resit. He's now doing double maths, comp sci and phys A levels.

I wouldn't push for it personally, but would consider it if the school approaches you.

My school taught English language and literature separately. Only the top English sets did both. Maybe things have changed since then!

If they would allow him to, I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.

It is generally compulsory.

I'd be very surprised if he was allowed to drop it,

They probably won't let him drop it as PP have said. But I don't know why eng. lit is mandatory for most kids. All it did for my DD was to put her off reading and going to the theatre with us.

@ChorizoDog Under the revised GCSE system schools are no longer able to do this. Which I think is good. How terrible for the students in ‘lower’ sets not to have access to the same education because of prior attainment.

What do the school say? Would they allow him to drop it?

Pps are perhaps not aware that he can have a bespoke curriculum and drop core subjects if that is appropriate to his specific educational needs.
OP I wish I’d thought to drop English lit for my son with autism. He dropped RE, Humanities, and one of the free options.
He hated English literature. He did not understand the literature to any depth but can learn how to structure and answer and remember what he was taught and regurgitate it in an exam. We were hoping he would get a 5 and it was not a given by any means. HOWEVER - he got a 7! So although it caused a lot of anxiety, and almost ruined a love of books, it was worthwhile in the end for him.

As others have said, I doubt he can drop it in a mainstream school because it is a core subject. I teach (English) in a school where there are quite a few with similar profiles to your son and others who are very low achieving in English (and most academic subjects). For many of them English Literature is a struggle for a range of reasons including not being engaged with the texts, not reading them and refusing to. I try to help them as much as I can but in all honestly I focus on them passing English Language (4/5) as that is what many of them need for their vocational courses at the next level. Working on writing and analysis techniques for English Language actually has a remarkable effect: many of those low achieving/SEN students last year got at least a 4 in English Lit because of it.

I struggled in the same way, I loved reading but just had to memorise what the teacher and study guides told me I was supposed to understand from the text, and what quotes were relevant. It was of no value to me.

Thanks for all your comments, some interesting views and points raised. I suspect he could learn texts, learn how to answer questions and get a decent grade - they did CAT tests and all his predicted grades came out at 7-9 - but I worry that his reluctance to do anything he thinks is “pointless” is so strong it could make him self-implode and refuse to do any exams.

We have sought help to support him with his emotions and approach to studying. It won’t start til after Easter but maybe it might help him cope with these subjects better. I just don’t know how to support/motivate him as he is so different to me - I always wanted to do the most exams possible and chose the hardest subjects going! It’s really difficult to put myself in his shoes and know how to help.

We have a very very very small number of students who will only do Lang. But in every case it's because they're on a very reduced timetable and don't attend school lessons anyway.
Students often do surprisingly well in literature.

They’re unlikely to let him. It would decimate their P8 score. Instead, could you recommend he focuses his revision elsewhere, but still sits the exam?

Hi @SuperSue77 ! I have worked in schools and with kids with special needs, including ASD. Your son's situation is fairly common, especially among boys.

As others have said, schools rarely allow a pupil to discontinue English Lit. So I would be positive and treat it as an opportunity: encourage him to have a good go! I know many instances where a pupil ended up liking or loving the subject eventually, something they can enjoy throughout later life. And don't worry about grades. These kids generally do well, sometimes getting a higher grade for Literature than for Language. And a university, knowing about the ASD, will not be bothered about the English Lit grade even if it is a bit low.

Finally, Literature is fundamentally about feelings and relationships, something of especial importance to an ASD pupil as education for life.

I remember in secondary school in the 00s the dc who struggled only did Eng language

Has this policy changed?

Yes - because the P8 weighting is better if they do both.

And a university, knowing about the ASD, will not be bothered about the English Lit grade even if it is a bit low.

If he's headed towards a STEM subject they are unlikely to care at all anyway, regardless of ASD. Some of the 'top' unis (eg imperial) have an English language requirement of grade 6 or B in old style. They know that many kids aren't all rounders.

There is no reason a child with ASD or autism shouldn't be able to do English Literature. Contrary to popular belief it is a logical subject, requiring coherent structuring, argument and understanding, just the same as Maths and Science.

The harder subject for ASD/autism is normally English Language due to the creative elements.

An ASD/dyslexic friend of my child got a 5 in Lit and a 4 in Lang. Literature was more 'formulaic' and less confusing than Language. I didn't think you could give up Literature.

I don't think the op said he can't do it, @bouncingblob - more that he's completely uninterested in it and that may negatively impact him overall, she said: I worry that his reluctance to do anything he thinks is “pointless” is so strong it could make him self-implode and refuse to do any exams.

Given he's unlikely to be allowed to drop it, the question is how to motivate him sufficiently to tolerate it.

What texts is he having to do, OP, that might give people some ideas?

Sometimes the English Lit pass means they don't have to do the English Language GCSE at college if they didn't get a grade 3 etc

I am having the exact same conversation with my DS's teachers. My DS is Yr9 and choosing options. He also has a diagnosis of ASD and is very able in some subjects - but Eng. Lit isn't one of them!
My DS does have an EHCP - and he is also in a special ASD unit so potentially it will be 'easier' for him to drop subjects.

As others have pointed out there are timetabling difficulties with this though. In my DS's school, Eng. lit and lang. are taught in the same period on the timetable. So it's not as simple as being able to opt out of a specific lesson.

I think it's incredibly common for DC with autism to struggle with interpreting literature. My DS cannot understand what motivates fictional characters - he also doesn't care!

I've agreed to let DS give it a go. It may be that he does the course but doesn't take the exam. Like you, I am concerned about the knock-on impact of studying a subject he hates and also is getting bad grades for - will have on him.

I am going to buy the Yr10 set texts and read them with him over the summer holidays so he at least knows what the plots are. I will also do some research with him about the history/politics of the time the novels/poetry are set in to try and engage him that way.

It's interesting and encouraging to hear from other posters that their DC did much better than they expected in Eng. Lit.

At least they won't have to re-take it!

English Lit GCSE is NOT legally compulsory, though many schools make it compulsory at their school. It’s worth asking the school.
At our (mainstream) school, all pupils must take English language and they have a choice whether they would like to take Literature as well.

Personally, I love English Lit and would usually recommend, but in your son’s case I wouldn’t - as long as he can pass Eng Lang he’ll never ‘need’ English Lit.

@ErrolTheDragon I’m not sure what the texts are yet, but based on what is on the school website currently it will be An Inspector Calls, MacBeth and A Christmas Carol. He’s only in year 7 currently (!) but his big sister is year 10 so it’s got me thinking about his GCSEs and also the fact that he is struggling already and only allowed to sit out of a few subjects.
If school sticks with those texts it might not be so bad. I think MacBeth would probably suit him better than Romeo & Juliet - he studied it at primary (so will cite this as a reason not to do it again!) but at least it is a story he is familiar with and the goriness of it will probably appeal to
him! I live An Inspector Calls and so can try to enthuse him with my enjoyment of the text. And A Christmas Carol has been so fantastically portrayed by the Muppets that hopefully that might motivate him!

I think I need to sell it to him as an opportunity to use his incredible memory to “bag a good grade” and help him learn the structures and arguments as many other posters have pointed out. Thanks for everyone’s comments, I think I need to work on encouraging him and selling it to him, rather than trying to get him out of it.