Where is a strategic place to move to in south London for secondary options

[LDNmeetsSurrey]

We're currently in Purley (Croydon Borough) and will have outgrown our home in a couple of years; right about the time we'll be picking a secondary for our DD (our DS will be a couple of years behind).

We're trying to assess where is not completely bonkers financially yet is well placed for single sex (one for DD and DD) or coed options.

From our current location in Purley, we'd maybe (catchment has narrowed)) get into coed Riddlesdown Collegiate which seems fairly well respected, "outstanding" but is placed at 866 academically by Locrating and is quite a large school. Yet last year we would have been one street out so not certain by any means.

By comparison, Wallington girls (Sutton borough), is no. 192 and Wilsons (also Sutton borough) no.13 we could just about drive to (would be a pain of a commute though.)

We would still (I think) be included in the Sutton Grammar catchment from where we are, but I'm wondering is there somewhere else - Kingston perhaps - that would be more strategic to move to that would offer us some coed state options that are well regarded (Eg Grey Court School, up at no.335) as a back up but leaves the grammar option open, eg. Tiffin? The Croydon borough is also really struggling with a failed transformation of the town centre, a bankrupt council and crime that makes the headlines - so growth on a property here is smaller than almost everywhere in London meaning that gap will only widen if we delay moving for a few years.

Kingston is much pricier than Purley - but it's not as costly as missing out on a decent school and feeling compelled to go Independent (which it would be a real struggle to afford for two kids). Would that be a good location for multiple school options? Where else? Feel like I've scoured every league table and catchment map and now can't see the wood for the trees!

@Fiddlersgreen I’ve heard that about Teddington about 10 years ago.. stories about very middle class children given lots of money by parents who are too busy to notice what their children are up to getting involved in drugs and alcohol etc.. all rumours and speculation etc. but not heard that about Grey court.. interesting

Ewell side of Epsom, Rosebery for girls and Glyn for boys, Nonsuch (grammar) and Sutton Grammar both good commutes.

If you go to church, St Bede’s Redhill (mixed) and live Reigate way.

@DoThePropeller thank you. I'll look into those.

Bickley. You get the two Bullers Wood schools, or Bishops Justice, and your children could sit for Newstead (girls) or St Olaves (boys), which are easily reachable by public transport.

I was going to say look at Langley Park and Hayes schools but someone else got there first

No one could say you aren't planning ahead. I'm not sure though about how you are judging schools. In my experience these league table things are really neither accurate nor helpful. Schools get good academic results if the students in that year cohort are academically able and well-motivated which aren't things schools have much or any control over. I know this is considered an outlier opinion by most parents.
Grammar schools are such a con I think, they take only children who study hard and do well in exams at 11 years old and unsurprisingly they get good, although not outstanding exam results.
I am not saying all schools are the same though but you will need to visit them and see if your child will fit in with them.
And state schools can change their character so much depending on the leadership team. Or if the catchment area changes. Which can happen very fast in London.
But I have to say I'm impressed by how much you care and the effort you are putting in.

@Notgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlit

Thank you. I actually agree with everything you're saying here.

I guess I'm a planner, and if I take the mindset that results are largely down to a cohort that year (although I'm looking across multiple years - so that should account for that) or because of a socio economic makeup of an area, then other than gut feel when I see a school...what is there to use as part of the process if not some of the data?

Appreciate your point on the grammars for sure, and by no means set on them.

I guess really the only way you can find a good school is to live in a "good" area. Because schools reflect the places they are in of course. Many students do very well in schools that are rated poor or even requires improvement. I did read some interesting research that showed if all variables are adjusted for there is no difference in exam grades gained across all schools in all of ofsteds catagories. So it seemed to show that the exam grades are about the student not the school which I have always suspected.

Look at progress 8 or whatever it’s called these days as a measure if you’re looking across selective and non-selective. Gives a better idea and comparison of the quality of the school & teaching.

@Notgoodatpoetrybutgreatatlit

That's pretty solid advice. A good area is pretty subjective too though right? Especially when it comes to London. For example, instinctively, most people who don't live in the borough of Croydon wouldn't say it's good place, but it varies massively across the borough (eg Coulsdon, Purley and Sanderstead vs West Croydon).

If you use measures like crime rate, the borough of Sutton comes out as one of the safest, but I've not heard many people shout about Sutton, Wallington, Rose Hill as a great place to be.

But as a principal - starting with a nice place to live, whatever that means to that person, and then positioning yourself for schools in that specific area is probably a good approach.

Thanks @Dontwish. Looking at that one too.

One website gave a good analogy of the difference between progress and exam results.

"It's important to not confuse exam results with pupil progress.
As an analogy, think of two mountain climbers. One starts at the bottom and progresses half way up. The other starts a third of the way up and progresses another third. So, the second progressed less up the mountain (one third compared to one half) but ended up higher (two thirds compared to one half). An exam result shows how high up the mountain a pupil finished, whereas a progress score shows how much of the mountain they climbed."

I think parts of Worcester Park are in catchment for both Tiffin and the other two Sutton Grammars.

yes it is with some priority postcodes for 2 of the Sutton ones. There is also some good catholic schools nearby & there is another state school that has a streamed set you could try for.

Kingston has others have said is a good option but it’s quite far to the Sutton grammars imo.

But as a principal - starting with a nice place to live, whatever that means to that person, and then positioning yourself for schools in that specific area is probably a good approach.

Not always true as many people in very nice areas go private particularly at secondary.

And to echo other posters the grammars are ridiculously competitive. I know people who start tutoring from yr 2 & one friend put their dcs name down on a 2 yr waiting list in yr 2 for a tutor. Have a look at what some of the tutoring programmes offer, it’s crazy intense.

Are you in catchment for Woodcote?

Depending where you are in Purley you could maybe do Greenshaw in Sutton - 11 plus places don't have catchment. Bit of a journey but could get 127 from Purley centre and walk. Some of my daughter's friends come from far side of Croydon.

I think there is also a school time only bus that comes from Riddlesdown area to the Wallington grammars.

Also don't forget catchment areas I think are offer day - so may well be a little larger in reality.

but I've not heard many people shout about Sutton, Wallington, Rose Hill as a great place to be

Similarly to Croydon it’s because a lot of people just don’t know the areas as they aren’t from London so move to the buzzy places & don’t venture further. So lots of people wouldn’t think of South Croydon when you say the word Croydon etc.
I don’t know loads about Sutton but it has some nice parts (bits of Wallington, Landseer Conservation area nearer Sutton centre, Carshalton beeches (I find that a bit too country but would be similar to S. Croydon). I have a friend who is in Worcester Park who is very happy & her dc are at a fantastic primary although WP is literally right on the edge of Kingston borough. Maybe look at New Malden too.

Are you considering areas in the round, not just secondary? It’s a long time to live somewhere. I moved away from Kingston and the catchment for TKA and Greycourt as I just didn’t like living there, to an area with a less good school but nicer. DD got all 8s and 9s. Being happy and supported is far more important in doing well. Plus it was a cheaper area so I was able to get tutoring for her in a subject where the teaching was lacking.

The two Ewell schools mentioned have a good rep. There’s also a Harris (not sure what the catchment is) that has had some great results but I know Harris schools are quite divisive.

And talking of safety, that’s why my friend moved to WP as she was inner London before & didn’t want her dc to have long journeys.

Tiffin Girls is not somewhere I would ever send my child. Lots of MH issues amongst the pupils . Having lived nearby, the parents were entitled and rude. Girls are tutored very heavily to get in - the exams are not just iq but actually things you have to learn that you are not taught at primary hence you need to be tutored. DD was easily bright enough to try for it , and nearly all the girls in her class did, but it was absolutely not the right place for her and not the type of education I wanted for her. I think the boys is better managed, but it’s still selective so you need to consider if you really want your child to grow up with that limited background ?

I'd be a bit careful with London Borough of Bromley. It has a number of blackspots for school admissions. It's currently possible to be pretty close to the schools mentioned so far and still not have a realistic chance of getting in (apart from if you don't mind sitting on waiting lists and seeing what happens in August).

Going through this myself currently.

You would at least want to be comfortable with the idea of a Harris Academy, as they've been filling the gap (but the fair banding admissions system makes it rather difficult to plan ahead).

Certainly you need to look carefully into the detail.

On the plus side at least we've reached the peak of the 2012-13 baby boom so pressure on places should ease.

@Countrylife2002 all schools unfortunately have had a rise in children with mental health problems. As for the parents being rude the vast majority don’t live near the school and that is one of the complaints about the Tiffin schools because they are selective they don’t take enough local children. I find the local community is a lovely place and just wanted to make that clear in case people got the wrong impression from your comment.

I would also agree that the grammar system can be very hard on dc although I know someone who taught at Tiffin boys and said it was less pressurised vs other grammars she taught at.

@12345change yes the area is fine but what I mean is to consider where you want to live and schools all as one , rather than basing where you want to live solely on schools.

Tiffin Girls is in a class of its own I’m afraid, the police even have to get involved on open days to prevent parents blocking in local residents.

I know children who went to TKA and at Greycourt and both schools are fine. Catchments are super tight.

I should add, I meant close to the non selective schools (well only selection by postcode 😂). You have a bewildering array of grammar options - not just the two actually in the borough already mentioned but also Bexley, West Kent etc. Depending on how you feel about travel times.

I was speaking to the parent of twins yesterday. One going for private in Blackheath. One for grammar in Tonbridge.

OMG. Glad not to be them.