Dropping languages at GCSE?

[postitnot]

My daughter has had lots of assemblies about choosing her options, and wants to do everything! Except languages. She says she can drop it if a parent requests it, so the school want her to do it I think. She wants to take PE, geography, history and RE as her options plus the core subjects (9 total). I'm conflicted as I hated languages myself, but I can really see the benefit of doing it at GCSE.

Ask her teachers. I did this with my youngest and they were really helpful about his chances and ability.

My daughter dropped languages she hated them is now at Edinburgh Uni doing English Lit. I think possibly the way it was taught. She is now teaching herself Spanish through Duolingo

If she doesn't want to take MFL then that's fine. Not taking it will not impact her chances of university at all in any way (unless she wants to study MFL haha).

I would always encourage someone keen to take MFL - it's my subject! and learning languages is a wonderful way to open your eyes to the world - but if a student is not interested, then it is better that they choose something they do enjoy.

In DS2's year their school pushed the Ebacc and lots of his mates have GCSE grades that go 8776655552 - the 2 being Spanish or German which they hated and made no effort at. Better to take business or RE or DT or whatever they preferred.

Exactly as @clary put it - if she's adamant that she doesn't want to, and there are other things she'd rather study, then I see no reason to push for it.

The only thing I will say, is that since I decided to teach myself Spanish (I started lockdown) I think, with hindsight, that it was undersold in one important respect when I was at school - we had the message about learning about a different culture and a language skill being a bonus in some lines of employment (honestly those points never meant a thing to me at the time) BUT no one ever mentioned that it ranks high as an intellectual challenge (which is now my opinion) and as such it's actually a very rewarding challenge to undertake - it's a very different type of challenge to subjects like maths and physics that I enjoyed and rated - I honestly think that if I'd been on the receiving end of that message for some time before I made my choices, I would have been more inclined to consider it - learning a language is a completely different mental challenge to any other subject.

Let her drop it.
As effectively otherwise you are narrowing alevel choices as she wont want to do alevel...

My youngest dropped languages.

He was genuinely appalling at them and I think his teachers were relieved.

He is now learning Japanese on Duolingo and through watching anime.

No benefit of doing them at gcse as lev is fairly basic . If she wants to pick up a language she can and even can start one ab initio at uni alongside a degree.

Better she is engaged fully with subjects she wants to do as that is more likely to ensure a good set of grades.

No benefit of doing them at gcse as lev is fairly basic

Obviously I disagree that there is no benefit tho I see this often. Yes the level is basic - so is the level of (for example) literary analysis for GCSE Eng Lit, or biology knowledge for GCSE bio. You have to start somewhere and GCSE French is a great start for A level and degree French.

Still agree that if MFL is disliked, there is no specific benefit to taking it.

Schools often want pupils to do a language, not because they are good at it, because they score points for it for having an EBacc pupil.
Pupils should be choosing options that they enjoy and will spend time doing, not subjects that they are forced to do and will push back against for the next two years.

Do you know what it is that your DD 'hates' about whatever language she has been studying? Is it the perceived difficulty, the teacher/s, something to do with whoever is choosing that option next year, anything else? I agree that forcing her is unlikely to be productive but working out where the push comes from may help her make her decision one way or the other in a more informed way.

I would say that 'not being good at languages' is a questionable reason and would be trying to figure out where that judgement comes from. Some people might find it easier than others, perhaps, but I feel it is more a question of context than 'innate' ability. I was put in the 'not good for' bag at school but an exchange proved that to be inaccurate and led to a chain reaction of events which means I now manage in four and can read a couple more.

As @clary and @larkstar have mentioned, there are many good reasons to pursue a language at this level and few subjects have such potential for long-term applicability throughout one's life.

@Spirallingdownwards mentions the possibility of picking up a language as a minor from scratch at university; this very rarely works in reality because ab initio modules are contact-time intensive and timetabling with your main subject often makes this impracticable. The pace is also very intense as typically ab initio students are put together with the post-A-level group by year 2 (in some cases, for final year only but that still means that they need to progress fast as they will be sitting the same final-year exams).

You may want to check this (plenty of similar data out there): https://www.cambridge.org/elt/blog/2022/04/29/learning-language-changes-your-brain/ and this https://news.las.iastate.edu/2021/01/28/study-shows-learning-a-second-language-thwarts-onset-of-dementia/

Good luck to your DD with her decision making!

Can I add a note of caution, aside from the languages issue. Geography, History and RE are very content heavy and will be quite a workload.

My ds is dyslexic and dropped languages which was 100% the right decision for him.

My other kids did languages but I don’t think they got any benefit from it as it’s not an interesting curriculum that counts as learning a language really. A massive shame as I am bilingual so pro languages

Worth noting that MFL teachers are one of the most hardest subjects for schools to recruit imo. I would be concerned about the possibility of a string of unnecessary substitutes or kids required to self teach.

This.

My dd did history and geography. In retrospect she wishes she did one of them plus a more practical subject like Food Tech which would have been different so sitting in the classroom. PE was compulsory at her school so not an option

That was my thought as well, it's a lot of content.

Mine had to do a language, she really didn't like it and it was a negative experience (despite a lovely teacher). But that was pre-reform and she was able to take 12 subjects - if she'd only been allowed 9 then she would have had to drop most of the options she really wanted to do and which were much more useful and beneficial to her (CS, electronics, drama, FM).
Maybe learning a bit of a language badly is good for them, but the question is what does taking it mean they're not doing? (In similar vein, if they're limited in the number of subjects they can do I don't think English literature should be mandatory if it's at the expense of another subject better aligned with the child's aptitudes and aspirations)

I'm a linguist, so I am fully on board with the benefits of language learning: I would have done 10 language GCSE if I could but my child is different and wanted to drop them, despite being capable of getting a high grade. I spoke to the school (super selective grammar so v much focused on getting to a top uni) and they reassured me that it wouldn't count against him later and actually it's a relief to have a school that does allow students a real choice and doesn't feel tied to the Ebacc which is is just a government metric. So although I was disappointed, I let him make his own choices. For most kids this is the first time they've had any autonomy in their education.

Thanks for all the really helpful messages! I'm glad she has so many options that appeal to her (today's assembly was food tech so she quite fancies that now too!) It's options evening this week so I can find out what the school actually advises... she's in top sets so I think she'll be fine with whatever she chooses, but I agree she's best to pick something she's engaged with.

For the PP who asked why she doesn't like it- she just doesn't isn't engaged. It's a shame because she really liked it in yr 7 but I think the novelty has worn off.