Does your school pitch certain GCSE options at the more able?

[composing]

At our school, in Key Stage 4 (years 10/11) there are a couple of 'level 3' courses targeted at the most able students, one as an option instead of a GCSE (visible and choose-able by all, but the wording makes clear where it's pitched) and the other as an additional after-school course (by invitation only). I think there are also a couple of extra/alternative courses targeted at the lowest attaining students too. I'm wondering if this happens in most schools. If so, do schools usually have published "criteria" for accessing these targeted courses or is the selection always fluid and informal?

I'm curious as to whether there are official DfE "rules" published about this sort of internal selection.

I know my son's school is offering some kind of extra maths /statistics GCSEs to the top set as my son is already really excited about it (and he's only in year 8 )

Have a son just about to select options. I gather triple science is only by invitation, and only decided at end of y10. Further Maths also by invitation, but I'm not sure what percentage get offered. Engineering and Computer Science must be in top set maths. They also offer Food Science (for higher achievers) and a Catering BTEC (for lower achievers). PE requires you to play at club level in at least one sport.
EBAC is not compulsory, but they do push it.
Standard offer is 8 ( so only 3 choices), but they do offer a small handful of extras, which are studied outside of core hours, so as to allow an extra GCSE for those that want it. Things like astronomy, classics and usually a language. They have to be self motivated for this.

DS has been offered to take Music (one of his favourite subjects) despite not having taken formal grades - he's self taught on piano and keyboard, loves composing.

That is the exact opposite of what suafa said. She said GCSE PE should be open to everyone because of those reasons.

If you have a teacher able/willing to teach FM and enough children who could achieve then why not offer it.

Spot on @TeenDivided. They had a weird structure at DD's secondary modern where ALL DCs took maths in Y10. The ones who did well then had the opportunity to take further maths GCSE and/or statistics GCSE in Y11. The ones who did less well had a chance to re-take maths in Y11. The reasoning was that such an approach benefited both the able and the less able.

Fortunately the school had a quite exceptional maths teacher who was more than capable of teaching further maths. DD was by no means a natural mathematician but still achieved good grades in all 3 maths GCSEs.

It is common to have this

Usually further maths gcse and stats gcse for maths, triple science is often like this, and quite a few schools offer additional languages like this.

Selection varies. My school people had to apply for triple science and were interviewed. Sometimes invitation (extra languages).

Many schools use the pathways system now to indicate to parents and students which GCSEs are appropriate - a student on track to get a 5 at maths should not be choosing further maths for example.

This school sounds brilliant! Not sure where they're getting the funding for this though!

I'm assuming all the schools mentioned so far are state schools. Hopefully people will make it clear if not. 🙂

Bigger schools are usually able to offer more options than smaller schools.

OP - there are is no DofE advice on this. It is up to schools and they are best placed to decide which pupils get recommended to do which courses. Obviously only schools can make decisions on who gets to do further maths.

Why the question? Is your DC at a school where this question has arisen?

The school offers Level 3 qualifications from year 10? Are you sure? What are the qualifications?

At ds’s school the very lowest ability students took 8 gcses instead of 9 & did work skills/numeracy/literacy instead.

But we are talking extremely low ability (the school also has a work skills 6th form course for students with learning difficulties.

apart from that all subjects were completely free choice.

One was an AS Level and the other was a Level 3 Diploma.

They may not have someone qualified to teach geology, or that teacher maybe teaching geography and it doesn't work with timetabling.

Why the question?

I was discussing it with someone who was adamant that internal selection for options isn't allowed. I Googled it and couldn't find any DfE guidance, so thought I'd consult the Mumsnet Hive Mind.

As KS4 options to be studied from year 10? That is exceptionally unusual and a very risky choice in terms of performance data: the L3 qualification will override the GCSE (for example if a child does GCSE Maths and AS level maths) even if the AS level point score is lower.

The AS was a Key Stage 4 option in a subject not offered at GCSE.

The Level 3 diploma was extra-curricular.

Our school doesn't formally state restrictions but they give a guidance document:

GCSE PE for those who already do competitive sport
Cambridge Awards for those that don't.

GCSE music for those who already play instruments or will get a tutor
Something else for those who don't.

Triple/Combined science not decided until year 11 but only highest achievers put forward for triple.

Maths - higher only guaranteed to students achieving grade 5 at the end of year 10.
Further maths and maths challenge offered to those achieving at least a 7 at the end of year 10.

Humanities are given 'guidance' about the strength of English skills needed.

Do sixth forms/universities favour a language? My son is not looking to pick one for his GCSEs however school have suggested that they look on a language favourably.

They’ll only count in the open bucket then. Still very very unusual.

To answer your question, there’s no statutory guidance about internal selection. A high proportion of GCSE options tend to be self-selecting as students generally gravitate towards their strengths. Academies technically do not have to offer the national curriculum although in practice virtually all do. Ofsted and the DfE are careful to make very few explicit statements about curriculum. The performance measures are designed to incentivise the provision of EBacc subjects and discourage early entry. Ofsted will scrutinise curriculum closely during an inspection but they want to see that leaders in schools have planned an appropriate curriculum with appropriate qualifications for students’ needs and that they can articulate the intent behind it.

This thread will answer your question: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4773404-how-important-is-a-modern-foreign-language-gcse-for-higher-ed

Yes Latin is a top set only option.

Nope MFL is not needed for sixth form or uni (unless you are planning to study MFL in the future obvs).

Schools like you to do it bc the "Ebacc" is a measure by which they are judged.
I like to see students choosing MFL but not being forced into it.

I see that I maybe misunderstood the original question. Like many others posting here, my DCs' school and the schools i have worked in have some kind of selection at GCSE, including only most able students doing triple science (as it was done in the same time as double); music GCSE being targeted at those who had music lessons (DCs' school offered music BTEC as another option); external sporting interests being preferred to take PE GCSE (but not mandatory); weaker students encouraged to take fewer GCSEs and have am SEN-support option for the missing subjects.

I think that makes sense tho I don't think it's the same as offering AS levels at KS4. I think AS would have limited value tbh unless there were a lot of very able students who were beyond and bored by the GCSE curriculum.

In my kids school which is a state grammar, anyone can take triple science if they wish to. I believe around 80% of students opt for this. If they can't accommodate all that want to do triple science (if say 100% chose it) then they use the year 9 mid year assessment result to choose.

There is one accelerated set for Maths and Further Maths is offered to all those in that set, it is the student's choice whether they take the FM exam or not. It is taught alongside the normal maths lesson.

My DS does music GCSE and the teacher said a grade 5 standard of playing by GCSE exam time is required to get the top mark for performance. There is no rules, just guidance. But they are not really taught how to play the instrument, this must be done through extra music lessons which I think is not very inclusive and discriminatory. So basically, if you aren't paying out money for music lessons that you are certainly disadvantaged because they are not learning how to play the instrument in school.

My DS also does PE GCSE. No actual rules, anyone can take it, but again, to get the best marks you have to be doing outside sports as they can't get to that level just doing lessons in school.

Seems that there is a combination of 'expectation management' and personal choice. My son can do maths and is in the top set, however he doesn't want to do further maths or A level maths because he doesn't really have a passion for it. Given that physics and chemistry seem to require maths at a higher level he is leaning towards the humanities at A level which is fine I think.