Non sporty child wanting to take GCSE PE

[doramaar]

DD is y8 and choosing her GCSE options. She wants to take PE. This isn't because she has any interest in pursuing a career in fitness or health, but because she doesn't want to do any of the other remaining options. There are several other ways she could feasibly go (separate sciences, a second humanity, computing, drama, food tech) but she doesn't want to.

I obviously want her to choose subjects that she thinks she's going to enjoy, but also would like her to choose subjects that she has a good chance of getting a high mark in. She's academic so I'm not concerned about the theory element of PE.

But she's really not that sporty. She has joined an after school cricket club this year but doesn't play for the school team or an outside club yet. One of the team sports they would be doing is netball - she's never played it and has no idea whether she'd be any good at it. She doesn't do any individual activity at the moment. In all honesty my perception is that she is pretty average at best in PE. At the end of year 7 her target grade was a 2 (based on GCSE grades) and she got a 2C, so verging on a 1. For context she got 4s in English and Maths so was well above in those.

I think it would be a poor choice for her - the school itself recommends that they should be playing at least one sport outside school at a significant level and I've read things about kids needing to be playing at county level etc to do well.

Does anybody have any experience of a non sporty child taking it? If she were to ace the theory but do badly in the actual sports, could she still come out with a reasonable grade overall (ie a 6?)

Have you spoken to anyone at school about your concerns @doramaar?
Is there a parents' evening before options have to be firmed up?
I'm honestly surprised if a Grammar, which I presume is pretty results conscious given they do GCSEs over 3 years, is not questioning your DD's choices. At my DC's school I would be expecting a call from the Head of Year if any of mine had been wanting to put themselves in this position, and it's just a regular, non selective state school.
It's not just the matter of what grades she can get in music or PE that are the concern, as some posters seem to think - Universities look at the best 8 GCSE grades apparently so you can have lower grades in one or two subjects without it negatively affecting anything - but the amount of time it is going to take her to catch up in PE and music and the possible impact that might have on her other subjects.
I think practical and creative subjects are great, and their exclusion from the EBacc is one of the reasons I am opposed to it. But they are not easy options. Well, just like any other subject they are easy if you have an interest and natural flair for them and not if you don't. And they do tend to be time consuming too, which isn't a massive issue if the activity is something you do anyway and enjoy but could be a huge burden if you don't.
From what you say, music sounds to be the better option for your DD, and that in itself will probably be quite hard work. But finding time in her schedule for music lessons and 3 sports, and a fairly new and I would imagine challenging language is going to eat into the time she has available for her other subjects. That could well lead to her getting overwhelmed and not achieving as well as she is capable of across the board.
Letting your children make and learn from their own mistakes is one thing, but in my opinion parents and teachers often do know best on topics like this, especially as she is only 12 and from what you say has tended to blow hot and cold on some subjects in the past.
You are not trying to stop her doing something that she has a real passion for or push her into esoteric subjects she has no aptitude for, you are trying to prevent a child from making a mistake, based on a misapprehension on her part (that PE will be easy) that has the potential to both impact on her overall grades and future choices and to make her unhappy. I think it is perfectly ok for a parent to intervene in such a situation and I would be calling the school to discuss unless there is a parents' evening coming up soon.
Personally I think it's a bad idea to choose options in year 8 as a lot of children aren't mature enough - even year 9 is very young but they do grow up a lot in a year at that age - but obviously you can't change school policy. But I'd want to get her teachers' views and also find out what the potential for changing things is if it does all go pear shaped. Once timetabling decisions are made her alternative options may be very limited so you need to know what would happen if she realises she's made a mistake once the course has begun.

Thanks @MrsAvocet. Haven't spoken to the school yet - she's only just had the form, we've got a month yet and parents evening in a couple of weeks.

The impact upon other subjects is absolutely a big concern. We're all for letting her have her independence, and we do in many ways, but ultimately this is a child who wouldn't wash or brush her teeth and would play on Roblox 24/7 if I didn't intervene and micromanage her on a daily basis. I don't think she's got the maturity to think these kind of decisions through properly.

As I said she has been changeable about subjects in the past so I'll see whether she persists with this and ask for the school's advice if she does. I just looked again at her latest school report where they grade them as either developing, secure or mastering in a subject - in PE she is developing.

Could you try calling her bluff if you think she's going for the easy option? If she's doing PE GCSE then she needs to do more sport so you've signed her up for a Sunday morning park run and then lane swimming in the afternoon....

I think we’ve lost sight of the purpose of education.

It’s to teach children things that they don’t yet know.

If she’s naturally bad at PE then she sounds the absolutely perfect candidate to actually do some real learning during the course. And get fitter and healthier too!

Don’t stand in her way OP. Geography and histoey won’t teach her anything she can’t learn in an afternoon from reading a book. Let her do what she’s trying to do: learn and get fit.

I cannot believe there are still schools forcing children to choose their options in year 8 and narrowing their curriculum from year 9.

Such a good point.

It terrible that at age 12 we push children towards doing what they're already showing signs of being 'good' at and away from anything that they're not good at/don't show an aptitude for. It's so early to give up!

I know you're just playing the system as it is OP, but it is a pretty awful system that makes you want your DD to give up trying to do something because she isn't good at it/doesn't have a natural aptitude for at age 12.

She only wants to do it to avoid having to do other subjects though - she hasn't got a burning passion for it in itself. She'll still be doing curricular PE and cricket outside of school if she wants to carry on with that.

I know what you're saying though and hate that they have to give up some subjects so soon for the sake of the bigger picture. Take Art for example - that was never really on the table for DD as a GCSE because she recognises that she would find it too stressful producing work she was happy with. But here's the thing - despite not being a talented artist she actually really enjoys the lessons and it's a shame she can't carry on with it for another year.

Another great post from @MrsAvocet – totally agree.

Put it like this – your DD has chosen a challenging language which is going to take time; and she wants to do music even tho she has had four months, not four years, of lessons; and PE though she doesn’t play any sport at all.

I see why you are concerned. It’s all going to eat up her time out of school.

@ClawedButler puts it very well that people need to make their own choices. But yy the OP’s dd is 12 not 14 (as some will be when choosing GCSEs) with just over a year’s experience of some of these subjects, and it does sound as tho these choices are a bit spur of the moment – it’s not as tho she has loved sport for years but been unable to access it, for example – by the sound of it anyway.

Re owning and having your own choices – my DD was v keen to do a subject I was not a fan of – she opted for it and in fact I had to eat my words as it was her favourite GCSE in many ways and a very supportive group for her. And if she had been wrong and I had been right, yes that would have been on her. BUT I do think in the OP’s DD’s case, as outlined above, things are a bit different and a chat with the school would be an idea tbh.

“Geography and history won’t teach her anything that she won’t learn in an after from reading a book” !! wow. Well I can’t agree with that @Shadowssang - and I am neither a geographer nor a historian. Geography certainly taught my DD an enormous amount.

I think those saying it’s great that she wants to keep fit are sort of missing the point. If she wants to do sports and keep fit – great! But GCSE PE for someone who, aged 12, does no sports at all and also is taking on two other GCSEs that will, for specific reasons, require a good deal of extra work outside school, does not sound like a good idea to me. Her keeping fit is great – sign her up for park run, get her to swim twice a week, see if she wants to join a football team. At least if these things don’t fly she can drop them – this might be trickier to do when she is halfway through year 9 and well into her GCSE course and realises that she is not keen on footy after all.

The OP's DD wouldn't be giving up PE though, just not taking it as an examined subject. PE is a compulsory part of the National Curriculum until the end of year 11 and plenty of schools require or at least encourage their 6th formers to participate too. GCSE is in addition to core PE, not instead. If the OP's DD wants to keep fit she will still have PE in school and there are many extracurricular opportunities available in most schools and communities.
But the young lady in question has, to date, not shown any interest in such opportunities which doesn't suggest she will enjoy a subject that necessitates participating in 3 sports competitively.
The OP is not trying to dissuade her DD from doing a subject that she loves but isn't particularly good at, or one which she seemingly has a burning desire to improve in. The girl herself has said she wants to do it because she sees it as an easy option. The OP is just trying to disabuse her of that notion and discourage her from taking a subject which would require a lot of time and effort and which for a child who doesn't enjoy sport could be a downright miserable experience as well as reducing time available for other things.
I completely agree that 12 is too young to be making these decisions or to be giving up any subjects but actually PE is the one subject that you don't give up if you don't take it for GCSE. If you drop any other subject at this stage that is probably the last time you ever study it, but at least with PE some basic provision continues. Every child should continue with some physical activity but GCSE PE doesn't suit everyone.

My son had to choose Geography or History, that was laid down by the schools option blocks. He is severely dyslexic and essays and written subjects a real issue for him exam wise.

He chose History because he loved the subject and didn't like Geography much. He got an E. Hated the few hours of exams, and did only as much homework as he could manage (sometimes, the poster type homework he enjoyed) and he loved the lessons and the syllabus content.

He's mid 20s now and flying in his computer career so it's never held him back!

Re the music, I contacted her piano teacher to double check it wasn't a terrible idea. She said that although it's unlikely DD would have done grade 4 level by y11 (which is what the school recommend for performance) what she can do is pick pieces that are tactically closer to what's needed for GCSE, she doesn't need to have sat the actual exams. She thinks DD would do well if she chose Music so that's been reassuring.

Sounds like a plan, especially as I presume she enjoys Music.

Having been there done that with academically able ASD children (one diagnosed, one not but possible), I recognise what you say about black and white thinking, and the worries about decisions being made without reference to key facts or considerations. Even in 6th form I heard mine come out with responses to issues or choices that were surprisingly black and white at times considering their intellectual level otherwise.

I firmly believe in scaffolding - for all children, really. Yes you want them to become independent, but in order for them to do this the right supports have to be in place. In a subject choice situation, information is key. Not just "what is the subject like so far", but "what will studying this course be like", "what topics will be included", "what will be expected of me in school and out of school", "how will it be examined" and so on.

In your daughter's case, I think the key will be to get much more information from the PE staff about what will be needed and/or expected of her. What lunchtime / after school time will be taken up by sports, how will it fit against other subjects. Check whether music and PE are practical to choose together, or does one typically expect them to be at choir practice when the other requires netball. I agree from what you are describing she sounds to have the potential to enjoy and do well with music, so if she is given a sensible picture of what time she should spend doing what for both these subjects, she will be in a better place to make a reasonable decision. If it looks like she can organise every afternoon and all day Saturday around music and sports activities, and that actually appeals to her, then let her do them if the school agrees ....

(I remember having careful discussions regarding possibly doing music + art with one of mine, who decided against in the end)

I have a very low grade in a practical subject that I thought I wanted to take and wasn't good at, and then started to spend more time on project work for other subjects so didn't complete my projects in that. I think I only got a grade at all due to going to the exam and doing it properly. I got high grades in everything else. It has never affected anything whatsoever and as I went on through education and employment, it's A-level and then degree grades and transcripts that are asked for, with GCSE certificates only been checked for English and Maths and no-one has ever given a damn that I didn't write that other subject/grade on my CV either.

OP I think you need to be less controlling and let her get on and make her own (minor) mistake, if it is one. Dance, swimming, yoga, gym also count, it doesn't have to be playing a team sport at a high level inside or outside for someone to be 'sporty' and it seems that the school might be steering children away from the subject when they shouldn't. All subjects should be open to all children prepared to engage fully and work hard in them. In fact this is one reason why a lot of children don't like PE, because their fitness and sport preferences aren't part of the typical high-school offering and are dismissed.

Also, it's possible to withdraw from a GCSE subject if it really really goes badly and the child is unhappy (as a parent you can insist) and there is no need to replace it with another subjects. Because having one less GCSE also doesn't matter one jot.

One small caveat - you have to pick at least one team sport, can't do 3 individual sports unless some exceptional circumstances as PP above described. Otherwise totally agree with this post 😃

You can do badminton or tennis doubles as a team sport for at least some exam boards.
My DS is doing badminton doubles for one of his sports just in case the other one doesn't work out.

That sounds a bit like the way performing a piece with piano accompaniment can count as your ensemble piece for music with at least some exam boards. (which was what DD ended up doing at the recommendation of her teachers, probably for ease of rehearsal. Unlike a friend of ours at the extreme opposite end where they used a performance of Tallis' Spem in Alium - with 40 individual voice lines - for theirs ...)