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Secondary education

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Original poster

DD - Struggling with Maths

21 replies

BlackBean2023 · 21/01/2024 18:03

DD has gone from being forecast a grade 7 in year 9 and a grade 4 based on mock and class test performance this year. She's Y11 so will sit GCSEs in 4 months. She needs a 5 to stay at school sixth form. Is predicted 7/8s in subjects she want to continue at A Level.

Her school are being very laid back about it ("don't worry, she should get up to a 5 no problem") but I'm concerned about this- it's not worked for the past 2 years! Her effort is considered good so it's not for want of trying.

We have got a tutor now, but what can I do at home to support her to raise her grade from a 4 to at least a 5 over next few months? She's sitting Edexcel higher paper.

OP posts:
TeenDivided · 21/01/2024 18:44

She needs to look at the mock paper and work out for each question why she went wrong.
e.g.
. didn't read question properly
. didn't spot type of question (eg ratios, quadratic equation)
. knew what type but not how to do it
. made an error in the method
etc.

For my DD1 we realised that she often read / drew graphs wrong, and did mixed unit questions wrong so we put time into sorting those.

If it is the higher grade questions she is getting wrong you might like her to have a go at a foundation level paper incase she needs to switch. (That would be capped at a 5, but exclude harder topics. Not a good idea if she is ace at algebra but poor at wordy questions / makes lots of silly mistakes.)

TeenDivided · 21/01/2024 18:50

You could also help by testing basic knowledge such as: parallel angle rules, circle theorems, indices rules, names of shapes, formulae, graph shapes etc.
Just as you might test for causes of WWI, or properties of metals, or declension of avoir.

clary · 21/01/2024 19:12

Can you query the higher paper? If her mock was a 4 and she only needs a 5, a pragmatic solution would be to sit foundation.

A student who is gaining a 4/5 on higher maths is unable to access the majority of the questions - very dispiriting.

If she were achieving a high 5/possible 6 then H paper would be worth a punt, but I really cannot see why she is being put through higher in this case.

Have a look at some F papers and see how she does. Btw the exam certificate just gives the grade, it doesn’t say which paper was sat.

But yes, @TeenDivided makes a good point about the kinds of questions she gets wrong. Still worth a look tho.

Stoufer · 21/01/2024 19:19

We’re finding Corbett Maths cards very good (I have a year 11 too). They have quite a simple concept on the front, then qr codes on the back for a video to explain it, plus qr code for questions and answers. We got my ds to sort through the cards into three piles, one pile he was okay with, one pile sort of understood but needs more work, and one pile that he didn’t understand. Then you focus work / revision / practice to reduce the third pile and move them all gradually into the easy pile. Practice really helps - I think the Corbett maths website also has five a day (quick questions to do every day). The Pearson revision guide and workbook are also good.

NonComplainingDay · 21/01/2024 19:22

My son is home educated and passed his maths GCSE's and A levels by watching T L Maths on Youtube.

Original poster
BlackBean2023 · 21/01/2024 21:16

Higher paper is definitely the right one - she can get the concepts but seems to buckle in the exam. Teacher thinks she's capable of getting a 6 and she only needs about 37% on higher to get a 5 as opposed to 80% on foundation and then her grade would be capped. I agree about the higher questions being demotivating for the intermediate learners. The Corbett maths cards look good. Thanks

OP posts:
clary · 21/01/2024 21:45

she only needs about 37% on higher to get a 5 as opposed to 80% on foundation

Just to be clear - you do understand (I mean I am sure you do but others may read this) that the higher paper is much harder than F? So it's a whole lot easier to get 80% than 37%? I mean it should be the same but in my subject (MFL) the F paper is so so much easier. Questions are more scaffolded, answers can be simpler, the whole thing is much less daunting. (I'm talking there about MFL not maths, but I imagine it's similar)

A lad I know who is pretty bright (taking A levels) took F for French - he was well aware that he couldn't get more than a 5 and happy with that. I imagine with some work he could have got a 6 on H - but his view was, why put himself through the stress? He would pass - and he does totally unrelated subjects at A level (PE, biology, tech) so thee was no need for a higher grade. He easily gained a 5. I thought that was pretty sensible tbh.

Thing is, would you rather your DD was on track for a pretty certain 5, or a possible 6 but equally possibly a 4 or even a 3, while needing a 5?

what does DD think about all this btw?

TeenDivided · 22/01/2024 07:55

she can get the concepts but seems to buckle in the exam

Getting the concepts is all very well, but if she can't pick out the right way to solve questions in the exam then she'll be stuffed.

There are 'cross over questions' between F and H i.e. questions that appear on both papers. These are used to help determine the grade 4 and 5 boundaries iirc.( I don't know whether MFL has the same system?)

On the Foundation paper in theory all other questions are easier than the crossover ones, whereas on Higher they are all harder.

I would strongly suggest you & she at least look at a Foundation paper. If she is switching then the sooner the better as she would need some practice with the easier questions so as not to over complicate them.

LizzSinger · 22/01/2024 09:13

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mumonthehill · 22/01/2024 09:18

Build her confidence back up as it sounds like she knows how to do it but the stress of the exam means she is making mistakes. Do loads of past papers and get the tutor to build on the basics with her. I think it is worth thinking about her dropping down to foundation so look at those papers as well.

Blindaroona · 22/01/2024 10:09

We were told that the higher paper is daunting for those around a grade 5/6 because around half the paper is inaccessible to them, 50% of the questions are aimed at the grades 7-9 and are needed to work out who is a 7 and who is a 9. This is possibly why she is buckling in the exam, turning page after page and not knowing how to do something is very challenging.

I completely agree with Teen about looking back over papers she has sat and identifying if there is a pattern to not getting full marks on the question. Also could she answer that question now if presented with it? Lots of children make the mistake of sitting a paper, going over it in class and writing in what they should have done and then never revisiting the paper to see if they remember what they were supposed to do. That isn't just for maths either but for every subject.

Sitting past papers at home under timed conditions may help her too, even foundation so she can test her basic knowledge.

ILiveInSalemsLot · 22/01/2024 10:16

Is she reading the questions properly? Teach her to underline the requirements so she's focussed on what she needs to answer.
Get her practising lots of questions.

clary · 23/01/2024 00:01

Yeh that’s right @TeenDivided – I don’t know detail about maths GCSE, but to take the MFL writing paper, the crossover question is a 90-word essay with four bullet points (so, heavily scaffolded) and then for H you do a 150-word essay with just two bullets, and a paragraph of translation. For F you do a 40-word essay (really just four sentences) again with four bullets (so for example, it’s about your hobbies and the bullets are sport, cinema, TV and something you don’t do) plus a couple of even easier tasks.

So the F paper is genuinely so much easier. I have known a candidate in a mock write nothing for the 150-word essay (it is much much harder eg “describe a live event you attended”) as they were so panicked.

To gain a 5 at Edexcel higher maths in 2019 you needed to score just 33% - so two thirds of the questions might be impossible for you even to attempt. Even a 6 was 45% so more than half the work would be beyond you. That is so tough. And if your DD buckles in the exam then that may be why.

Original poster
BlackBean2023 · 23/01/2024 09:55

Her school only teacher to the higher spec so she would be ill prepared for the foundation paper (I've had that discussion with school!).

They say her understanding is good but her application goes wrong under pressure so I guess it's just practice practice practice.

OP posts:
user1497207191 · 23/01/2024 10:06

Get the CGP revision/exam practice books from Amazon and get her to work through them all. Say a page per day and she'll have finished the book by May. They're excellent for building up the resilience and practicing exam style questions, even more so if she thinks she knows the concepts, as that means she just needs lots of practice.

Soozikinzii · 23/01/2024 10:16

I agree with Teen that she should be entered for foundation it's so much less daunting . Her tutor should be able to analyse which questions she needs to pass and which she should be concentrating on . Then she can focus in on those . A 1 to 1 tutor will make a huge difference I'm sure .

TeenDivided · 23/01/2024 10:20

I assume that if they don't teach Foundation then your DD is at a selective school? That does make it harder to drop the tier.

Original poster
BlackBean2023 · 23/01/2024 18:18

TeenDivided · 23/01/2024 10:20

I assume that if they don't teach Foundation then your DD is at a selective school? That does make it harder to drop the tier.

Correct.

OP posts:
steppemum · 24/01/2024 08:55

when my dd did her mocks in Nov, it was obvious that she is going to fail English.
I wrote to school and said basically she is going to fail, what can you put in place?
I persisted until now she is having English support once a week, and also has a year 12 mentor who does practise with her one lunchtime. It has helped enormously.

So I would go back to school and ask what they are doing to provide support.
as well as supporting her at home.

Stoufer · 24/01/2024 09:15

Do you have wider concerns about her learning progress / style? Or if there are significant differences between learning attainment across different types of subjects? I only ask because we have dyslexia and ASC in the family, and my dc with dyslexia actually found maths more difficult than English - there were issues such as misreading maths symbols, making ‘simple’ mistakes when translating / copying from one line to the next, and a much slower speed of processing (maths involves lots of complex operations, and requires a strong working memory, something that can be a struggle for those with dyslexia). My dc was having big problems in maths (and the teacher initially thought they were struggling at that level, but when they were allowed to use the extra time they were supposed to be having it became much better, they were able to complete more, and also had time to go back and check for obvious mistakes in the symbols or in parts of the question copied down incorrectly. It may not be at all relevant to your dc, but thought I would ask in case there have been other signs, or if there is a family history of Sen (parents / siblings / cousins etc).

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