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What happens if they fail English GCSE?!

34 replies

airpodz · 18/01/2024 11:17

DS is in year 11 and on course to get grade 9s in maths and all his science subjects (which he wants to do at A level).

He is dyslexic and will struggle to pass English -- which is a requirement for all the sixth forms he's applied to.

What happens if he fails his English?

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 18/01/2024 11:20

If his offer for sixth form in dependent on passing maths and English then they won't let him into sixth form.

They may be prepared to let him resit.

If he fails officially he has to resit until either he passes or is 19 or goes to uni.

I got my son a tutor and he scraped through

clary · 18/01/2024 11:22

He’ll have to retake until he gets a 4. Depending on other factors, sixth form may still accept him. Mate of ds’s got a 3 - and better grades in chosen subjects - so they let him stay and resit. He got a 6 (!) in the autumn.

Can you raise it with chosen sixth form now? If he is likely to get 9s in science they’ll want him surely.

Dyslexia in itself doesn’t mean a low English grade - what did he get in mocks? What is his pg? Can you source a tutor to help him towards a 4 or 5? He clearly is an able student. Does he get extra time?

LIZS · 18/01/2024 11:29

Does he specifically need English language or would it be either/or with literature? Can you afford to get some specific support ?

airpodz · 18/01/2024 12:26

He’s predicted a 5 but recent performance suggests that might not be realistic.

His chosen sixth forms require a 6 or 7 in English and are so oversubscribed that they don’t accommodate resits — even for those like DS who will do very well in their A level subjects.

Yes we’ve got extra help in place and he does get 25% extra time.

I guess we’ll have to cross that bridge when we come to it re the English result. Thanks all.

OP posts:
clary · 18/01/2024 13:01

Well it certainly sounds as tho you are doing all you can. If he is a grade 9 student in other subjects, worse than a 5 in English sounds a bit surprising tbh (not saying you are wrong! Just that it’s unusual).

Can you or rather the tutor really drill down into what is stopping him doing better? Eng lang is really (really) about how you answer the question; have you included what the exam wants, in the right place? But a tutor should be doing this for sure.

Has he had the tutor long enough to see a difference? If so, what do they think he will get? Push them for an honest answer. I once predicted a tutee a 6 on a good day – parent not very happy but it maybe gave tutee the push they needed (they ended up with a 7). Not Eng btw!

If it all really looks like he might get a 5 or lower grade (btw if he gets a 4 or a 5 he will not be required to resit) then I would suggest you look for a back-up plan in terms of sixth forms. Plenty of excellent sixth forms will be happy with a 4 or 5 in Eng if it’s not being taken for A level. Sounds like he might need another option in place now rather than trying to cross the bridge on results day tbh.

bookmediary · 18/01/2024 15:27

As a parent have you looked at any of the past papers and mark schemes for English language? If you can see what is needed then you can help him get a higher grade too. Literally walk through each question one by one and look at what the mark scheme is looking for. Once you have done one or two it should be easier for him to pick out what the examiners are looking for. Ds found it easier to learn this from me rather than a teacher in class.

If he has to do a narrative or story they are usually given 4 or more generic titles to choose from. He doesn't need to think of a story on the spot, he can prepare rough outlines for stories before the exam. That means you and him sitting down and working on descriptive words for things, the best ones are weather, you can always stick weather into any narrative. Google will happily provide good descriptions for things. The same for describing a person. He is 15/16, they are not looking for a best selling novel, just how they use language and punctuation. My sons didn't do AQA for lang which is the usual choice but both went in with outlines for 3 stories that you could fit to a title, like The Choice, The Mistake, The Playground. There are lots of videos on youtube about writing narratives too. Mr Salles, Stacey Reay.

From Stacey Reay (teacher of the year) Fronted adverbial ie Frantically, cautiously, Wildly, Enthusiastically, Accidentally, Without warning, Within seconds. Use outside/inside - she greeted every person (but felt like a museum exhibit) or abstract nouns such as anger, indignation, outrage, courage, daring, bravery, integrity, virtue, principle etc. I really hope this helps. Mine both increased their English grades with the above. As your son, like mine, has 9s in other subjects this seems like it is an exam technique situation.

ThanksItHasPockets · 18/01/2024 16:00

He needs at least a 4 in order to move on to a level 3 course. Very academically competitive sixth-forms simply don't accommodate resits for GCSE and A level, I'm afraid.

If it looks like he isn't going to get the 4 (and that would be very unusual even in a severely dyslexic student if he is on track for 9s in everything else) then you need an urgent conversation with the SENCO and exams officer about access arrangements as it sounds like he needs more than extra time. If he is cognitively able then you should seriously consider a computer reader (he can't have a human reader for Eng Lang) and either a scribe or speech recognition software for the writing components. It means sacrificing the GPS marks unless he can precisely dictate the punctuation marks but if the content of his work is decent there will be more than enough marks available to get him at least a 4.

This is urgent - a formal diagnosis of dyslexia will help but there is other paperwork to be done and he may need an assessment as evidence. It also needs to become his normal way of working for any further mocks or formal assessments. It has to be processed and approved by JCQ by 21 March at the very very latest.

titchy · 18/01/2024 16:03

airpodz · 18/01/2024 12:26

He’s predicted a 5 but recent performance suggests that might not be realistic.

His chosen sixth forms require a 6 or 7 in English and are so oversubscribed that they don’t accommodate resits — even for those like DS who will do very well in their A level subjects.

Yes we’ve got extra help in place and he does get 25% extra time.

I guess we’ll have to cross that bridge when we come to it re the English result. Thanks all.

Don't cross that bridge when the times comes - get plan B sorted now. You may find that leaving it till August means colleges won't have space for him. Apply now.

Spendonsend · 18/01/2024 16:21

I agreed organising plan B and a tutor for English.

I also think look at his other subjects and 'sacrifice' one of them in terms of a 5, 6 or 7 is fine in a subject you arent continuing at a level, if it gives you more time to get the magic English pass.

airpodz · 18/01/2024 17:01

Thanks for the reality check. I’ve had a look and there is indeed another local school which would accept a 4 in English and the deadline for application hasn’t yet passed. So that will be a good plan B. Meanwhile he does have his tutor (whose opinion I’ll ask for re DS’s realistic prospects) and I’ll do some practice with him as well.

OP posts:
MrsHamlet · 18/01/2024 19:34

bookmediary · 18/01/2024 15:27

As a parent have you looked at any of the past papers and mark schemes for English language? If you can see what is needed then you can help him get a higher grade too. Literally walk through each question one by one and look at what the mark scheme is looking for. Once you have done one or two it should be easier for him to pick out what the examiners are looking for. Ds found it easier to learn this from me rather than a teacher in class.

If he has to do a narrative or story they are usually given 4 or more generic titles to choose from. He doesn't need to think of a story on the spot, he can prepare rough outlines for stories before the exam. That means you and him sitting down and working on descriptive words for things, the best ones are weather, you can always stick weather into any narrative. Google will happily provide good descriptions for things. The same for describing a person. He is 15/16, they are not looking for a best selling novel, just how they use language and punctuation. My sons didn't do AQA for lang which is the usual choice but both went in with outlines for 3 stories that you could fit to a title, like The Choice, The Mistake, The Playground. There are lots of videos on youtube about writing narratives too. Mr Salles, Stacey Reay.

From Stacey Reay (teacher of the year) Fronted adverbial ie Frantically, cautiously, Wildly, Enthusiastically, Accidentally, Without warning, Within seconds. Use outside/inside - she greeted every person (but felt like a museum exhibit) or abstract nouns such as anger, indignation, outrage, courage, daring, bravery, integrity, virtue, principle etc. I really hope this helps. Mine both increased their English grades with the above. As your son, like mine, has 9s in other subjects this seems like it is an exam technique situation.

Please be careful with the pre-prepared narrative. We recognise them and it's considered malpractice.

bookmediary · 18/01/2024 20:26

@MrsHamlet working on elements of a story is considered malpractice? Can you point me to where it says that because my children's school brought in a specialist English teacher to bring up their grades and they practised descriptives such as settings, ie in a house, a wood, a classroom and it was explicitly to use in exams. It isn't a whole story that would be impossible to know what will come up titles wise.

Plus Mr Salles himself promotes this, see this video

5 Ways to Cheat the Describe and Narrate Question Mr Salles

Online Courses (FREE for 30 days!)Sign up to my Free newsletter for weekly resources which will help you get top grades: https://mrsalles.substack.com/Mr Sal...

https://youtu.be/EPijbpKtBWY?si=7MqJrF5m4jUwAU1F

MrsHamlet · 18/01/2024 20:36

both went in with outlines for 3 stories that you could fit to a title, like The Choice, The Mistake, The Playground. There are lots of videos on youtube about writing narratives too. Mr Salles, Stacey Reay.

I'm aware of those videos and there's a lot to be said for them as concepts. But trying to shoehorn a response to fit a task is a bad idea, and it's happening more and more, which is why exam boards are taking it more seriously.

MrsHamlet · 18/01/2024 20:45

The first example refers to an issue over seating but equally could apply to material pre-prepared in a session like the one you describe.

The second is the more common one.

What happens if they fail English GCSE?!
What happens if they fail English GCSE?!
ThanksItHasPockets · 18/01/2024 20:47

@bookmediary I appreciate it’s not what you are advocating but there are centres which will teach students to write, perfect, and memorise a prepared narrative and change surface features to fit the titles provided. Eduqas are particularly hot on this. I had a student badly penalised as they were convinced that her narrative was pre-prepared and it was impossible to prove that it was spontaneous.

socks1107 · 18/01/2024 20:55

My practical advice is from very recent experience.
My daughter looked set to get a 3 two years ago, we started looking at sixth forms that would accept her and let her do level 3 btecs and resit. Successfully found one and secured a plan b.

On results day she did get a 3 but a 4 in maths and English lit, her plan A offered to keep her but she'd worked up to doing plan b mentally so that's what she chose and it's been amazing!!

She actually passed her English last week on her 4th attempt and now has an interview at her chosen uni in February.
Bottom line is make a back up plan. I hope he does well

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 18/01/2024 20:55

airpodz · 18/01/2024 12:26

He’s predicted a 5 but recent performance suggests that might not be realistic.

His chosen sixth forms require a 6 or 7 in English and are so oversubscribed that they don’t accommodate resits — even for those like DS who will do very well in their A level subjects.

Yes we’ve got extra help in place and he does get 25% extra time.

I guess we’ll have to cross that bridge when we come to it re the English result. Thanks all.

You can hold as many sixth form offers as you like, and choose which to accept on or after GCSE results day. It's not like secondary school places. I would look around some local schools or colleges that may accept a lower grade, and put a back up plan in place now.

The school I work at asks for 6s in GCSE science, to do A-levels- we are also oversubscribed, and might take a student who got a 5 if their other results were good, but not one who got a 4 or less. We do allow resits for students on some courses, but we wouldn't accept a student onto A-levels and we might not have space on alternative courses.

I know our nearest college would accept a student to do some A-levels with a 5 in English, and might be able to accommodate a resit in English alongside A-levels. They're a relatively new college but were oversubscribed for the first time last year- my understanding is they found spaces on courses for everyone holding an offer, but were turning people away who rang up on results day as they'd missed other offers.

It's much better to have a back up plan in place now rather than be ringing around in a panic on results day!

bookmediary · 18/01/2024 21:05

@MrsHamlet I am not saying shoehorn a narrative to a question, just that practise gets them used to writing descriptives and makes it easier to remember the better thought words as part of a narrative. As I said mine did not do AQA which only gives a choice of 2 things to write. Hence why the specialist teacher was brought in to help the students learn to write a better thought out piece. With no photo to go off and just titles some students just freeze and have no idea where to even begin to write a story about a stranger or a birthday. Having a description of a place or person helps them mould a story around that. Hardly a 45 minute piece of prepared work. My children found it comforting to know that they had ideas before they went in as I said sanctioned by Mr Salles and by their teacher.

@ThanksItHasPockets love your username and I do say this when I put on a dress with pockets. Sad that a good writer was penalised for their excellent work.

MrsHamlet · 18/01/2024 21:14

@bookmediary I'm glad it helped your children. But the reason I tell my students NOT to do this is because the risk is too great, as thanksithaspockets' student found out.

airpodz · 18/01/2024 21:29

Funnily enough we were going through past papers and mark schemes today! And I’ll certainly give him some of those language tips. Thanks all.

OP posts:
barkymcbark · 18/01/2024 21:31

Depends if he's struggling in English literature or English language. You only need a 4 in English language to take A levels or collage course

ThanksItHasPockets · 18/01/2024 21:36

Thanks @bookmediary. It couldn’t have happened to a lovelier or more exemplary student and I am still angry about the injustice years later.

@airpodz it is great that you are considering backups but please do look into the exam access arrangements. Your DS must be severely dyslexic to have such a disparity in his outcomes and he has the right to adjustments to help him.

bookmediary · 18/01/2024 22:42

@barkymcbark the OP's child needs either a 6 or a 7 in English language to gain entry to the sixth forms in their area.

@ThanksItHasPockets I would have hoped the exam board would have accepted evidence that the child is gifted in this area. But this is why my children like maths, it's not an opinion, it's either right or not.

airpodz · 18/01/2024 23:12

@ThanksItHasPockets thanks for caring! Yes he gets 25% extra time.

OP posts:
ThanksItHasPockets · 19/01/2024 06:45

@airpodz yes, I saw that. As I said upthread I think he might be entitled to more. Using a computer reader and either a scribe or speech recognition could make all the difference. Good luck.

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