St Pauls Girls vs Latymer Upper

[Blaasofapute99]

Not seen many comparisons of these two schools on this site... curious to know how people with experience view them? what's the pros and cons of each school? Both are prestigious, score well academically etc so trying to figure out which school will be a better fit... thanks!

@Blaasofapute99 Honestly, the two have quite a lot of overlap (both highly academic and quite progressive) but more differences between them. DD will get a fantastic education at either, but will have different experiences so it should come down to DD preference and parent preference.

We chose LU over SPGS for a few reasons, but ultimately, it came down to 'feel,' and we loved the vibe at LU. We thought the emphasis at LU was more on these kids being so bright we want to ensure they're not bored versus an SPSG vibe that these kids are in the best of the best and need to achieve so we stay number one. To be fair, we did not feel this as much from the school itself, more from the parents we met. (We did very much feel that 'prove you're worth your spot' vibe at other single-sex schools we looked at for DD tho.) We also wanted the larger, co-ed school, and we felt LU had a far more diverse student population. All this is a 100% personal thing, though, and it is up to parents and the DD to know what they think is best for DD every day.

We have no regrets, but we do have a couple of little doubts every now and then - LU is a large, bustling place, and sometimes we wonder whether a smaller school might have a 'warmer' feel. That said, DD is extremely happy there and doing very well academically and socially. She does not feel the school lacks a 'warm' feel, but she presumably just thinks it's a difference between primary and secondary. The school has a strong emphasis on friendships across the year groups, and she feels well-known and well-supported.

that's very helpful, thank you so much @MrsEverdeen !

Such comparisons are common in Feb every year. I concur that LU has more diversity in many aspects.

@Blaasofapute99 , for anyone who gets an offer and attends the open day for offers I suspect the focus will be on LU dropping GCSEs for this cohort and the qualification they will bring in (created in house) instead.

Yes true, although they’re keeping English and Maths for GCSEs but not other subjects and there’s no changes to A-levels.

As I understand at LU there’s a greater mix of both public and private pupils coming from primary whereas I assume majority of girls attending SPGS comes from private primary schools. Does anyone know if this changes the dynamic between the girls at all , particular if you’re joining from state school ?

Also LU is quite a bit larger school, does that make it harder to make friends, join clubs and do extracurricular activities etc compared to SGPS?

thanks for answering !

we only have experience at LU but it seems that a lot of thought has been put into ensuring kids get to know each other. They actively encourage clubs (no problems getting into them), encourage sports with A-G teams playing every weekend, do activity weeks etc. My DD has lots of friends from her teaching set, her form, her teams, her clubs, music, etc. In addition to her main friendship group, none of whom are in either her teaching set or her form. I don’t think there’s any difference among the kids on state v private, or my kid had no idea anyway. It doesn’t appear to be exclusive friendship groups and I don’t hear of anyone not having friends or making friends. I do hear about which friendship groups are toxic, which ones aren’t etc, and I put this down to being friends across groups rather than in cliques. The school really seems to put a lot of effort into ensuring the kids have plenty of friends and not silo themselves into exclusive groups.
My DD started the school as the only one from her non-prep primary. Her close friends are a mix of state and prep school, and her wider group is also a mix. She has lots of school friends, including in older years, in our neighbourhood and that makes a huge difference too. I would definitely ask how many kids live in your neighbourhood when you’re deciding on a school. DD has one on our block (can see each others windows even!) and several within a 10 minute walk. It’s nice for them and really nice for us parents too. We get together as families a couple times a term and as parents only at least once a term. Makes a big difference.

Hi @Blaasofapute99 !

SPGS is socioeconomically and academically elite and elitist. To the extent that a private school can be diverse, LU is more diverse.

A huge difference though is boys: you need to be clear about how that will impact your daughter at LU. With a different choice of schools, we chose the all girls school over the co-ed school.

Your daughter has earned a fine choice. Congratulations to her and to you!

I have two dds - one's left LU and is at uni but still in close touch with many friends from there, one is still there. They've both adored the school - very different personalities but it's worked out for both. I only have friends with kids at SPGS, so can't personally compare and don't want to criticise a school I have no personal experience of. It's all down to whether you prefer co-ed or single sex, which vibe your dd prefers. LU definitely has a more diverse intake and my dds have really appreciated that. They both say they would have hated an all-girl environment and have mixed friendship groups.

I think the school size is actually an advantage, you can easily find your 'tribe' and there's certainly no issue with getting into clubs etc, they actively encourage you to join societies etc. One dd is very sociable and artistic and one is introverted and extremely studious, they both found like-minded friends who I have become very fond of (and of their parents too). The school has been incredibly supportive when one had some mh issues (to do with Covid not the school) and always super-responsive to any concerns. They've excelled academically. Happy to answer any question on a DM but also I am not on commission from LU and think all of us need to go with gut feeling.

DD is at SPGS. She had a very strong preference for single sex, but also we like the liberal atmosphere at St Paul's and the way in which they are treated as far as possible as responsible adults from day one. We have found plenty of diversity, including in a socioeconomic sense (we are part of that diversity).

DD came from a state school and it hasn't been a problem for her. There are plenty of other girls who did, too.

Like LU, the school actively encourages sports (similar deal, they just make as many teams as those who want to play), clubs and other extracurriculars. If a club/publication/society they are interested in doesn't exist at school, the girls are encouraged to set it up themselves and crack on.

We have found it a very kind and inclusive environment - but I think schools in general are all more like that now than they were when I was at school. I don't think they had any concept of pastoral care at all back then!

Happy to answer questions if I can help with something specific (though DD is now in the upper years so may not be fully up to date on lower school).

thanks all! any thoughts on academic differences and how is the academic support like?

LU have a new headteacher last year I believe as well, too early to notice any difference?

I think it's hard to compare the two school's differences unless someone pops up who has a dc at both schools (I know one person and both her children did fine and seemed happy at both schools - friend is the sort to find fault with everything so was always criticising both for tiny things that I would never notice!) Both are obviously very academic schools and pupils get excellent outcomes, having said that so they should given the selective criteria. I'm very impressed by how passionate and dedicated LU staff are - especially at 6th form level - and quick to respond to any issues.

The new LU head only arrived in September, but early reports are good, I was hearing something very impressive about something she'd done just this morning.

I agree it is pretty much impossible to work out differences unless you have a child at both schools.

We have found the academic support good - DD needed a bit of help with one GCSE subject and got a very good result in the end with the support offered. We have also been very happy with how much the school seems to be at pains to stop girls working too hard and doing too much. But I expect perfectionist over-achievers who need reining in from time to time are present in most of these selective schools and they probably all have ways of dealing with this!

I have also found the school quick to respond to issues, both academic and emotional, and effective in offering help.

DD is in the lower years at SPGS and came from a state primary. No high-flying parents. She liked LU but her strong gut feeling was that SPGS suited her better. She said something along the lines that she felt comfortable when she was there. She also said that she found the topics in the exam and the interview interesting and she figured that would reflect how her classes would be (she now says she was right). I should add that several of her primary friends, who did not apply, had been telling her (fifth-hand) horror stories about what a pressurised hothouse it was and how out of place she would be socially (and economically). I admit I was worried but DH insisted we let her choose; her gut feeling based on the open day and the exam days trumped what she was being told by her primary friends.

We have been delighted so far: we feel she is being really nurtured (and definitely not pushed) on all fronts. She is now quietly confident (before she was just quite quiet). She has a great group of friends (ethnically and economically very diverse, also different backgrounds and faiths); they mix them a lot for classes and activities and finding her tribes was facilitated by this. She has less homework than the primary friends she's in touch with (at both independent and state schools). She thinks the holidays are too long!

She may have had the same sort of positive experience at LU, of course. It's impossible to know (and things can change). Finding a school which works for your child does not mean other places are less good. And it is possible that several places may be the 'right' fit.

DD attends the lower school of SPGS, while her close cousin is in the same year at LU. We often compare their experiences indirectly.

Both DD and her cousin enjoy their schools very much. They have a range of subjects and clubs to choose from, and both schools keep them engaged and challenged academically. The exams and workload are comparable for both schools in most respects so far.

There are some high-flying parents in DD's year, and a few of them stand out with extreme high expectations, but this has nothing to do with the school. We believe such parents are present in LU as well.

Regarding diversity, more than half of the girls in the lower school of SPGS have Asian backgrounds - DD is also Asian and she thinks the school is fairly diverse culturally. LU has more ethnic diversity and I'm not sure if that matters.

In terms of social, economic, and geographic factors, I would say most of them are from the comfortable West London families, though there are also many from the NW/SW suburbs. DD and her friends feel fortunate and privileged, but not entitled.

It is true that the majority of the students in her year come from private junior schools. LU probably has more students from state schools, but there are also many from Latymer Prep.

As PP said, it is hard to say which schools are more suitable, since every school is different. And even the same child/parents in the same year can have a different experience. The most noticeable difference between the schools is that one is coed and the other is a girls school, and that would be my main consideration personally.

The fact that SPGS has half of the girls go to Oxbridge and the other half go to other top Univ plus the top of the chart results say it all about the school academic life. To be successful in academic, the girls HAVE to study hard, its no question about it. There is no secret. It could be peer pressure or school or from the parents themself. So if you want amazing academic result then yes, SPGS is the safe bet.

My daughter goes to LU, its a big and mixed school so thats the difference and she loves it and thrives in it. She earned her 2 music diplomas during the last few years at school, one of the top rowers, participates in BMO2 and summer ukmt maths school. Her close friends are both boys and girls. The school boathouse is just at the back of the school making it so easy for their training(and loads of it). We really cant ask for more from a school.

The fact that SPGS has half of the girls go to Oxbridge and the other half go to other top Univ plus the top of the chart results say it all about the school academic life. To be successful in academic, the girls HAVE to study hard, its no question about it. There is no secret. It could be peer pressure or school or from the parents themself. So if you want amazing academic result then yes, SPGS is the safe bet.

Do you have a child at SPGS? I think what the results say most of all (as they do for selective schools in general) is that if you select clever children they will get good results.

In fact, academic life at St Paul's seems pretty unpressured to us, though it is true that some parents and some girls seem to self-generate pressure, perhaps a personality thing, and I am not sure it's different anywhere including non-selective schools from what we have seen from DD's friends elsewhere.

There is very little peer pressure (on the contrary, they all seem very supportive of one another, helping each other with homework etc) and I have not observed any from school - mainly quite the opposite in that they are at pains to stop girls from doing too much. Lower years especially seem to get very little homework and even in upper years it's not that much either. DD is doing A Levels and had nothing over the holidays and has had precisely one thing over the last few days (read something and take a few notes, which will probably take her twenty minutes).

So our experience is absolutely not that girls need to study incredibly hard and the only pressure DD has been subject to has come entirely from herself (we do aim to talk her down and get her to relax a bit, of course, just as the school does).

I think we all hear stories about other schools that make us raise our eyebrows a bit. But best to take it with a pinch of salt and not pass it on, IMO, unless you actually have direct experience of whatever it is.

Hopefully it's clear that DC are very happy at both schools, achieve well at both schools, and have lots of opportunities at both schools.
The tired old tropes about SPSG being a pressure cooker seem out of date and it's admirable that SPSG has done a lot of work on this front. I think it's easy to have confirmation bias when we hear stories. Current parents on Mumsnet are consistently saying their experience is different from what those of us outside the school assume.
OP, you can't go wrong with either. Go with the one your DD and you feel would be the best fit. Go to offer holder days and trust your instincts. Good luck!

My friend read ex-head Clarissa Farr’s book and agreed with her portrayal of some parents at St Paul’s girls, where her daughter studies.

Totally agree with @MrsEverdeen , remember as THE most selective girls' school in the UK SPGS will inevitably have the most sparkling results, but down the line you realise children will succeed whatever (good) secondary school they attend, those who end up at the W London schools people sneer at still end up at fabulous universities. I never looked at SPGS because i dislike single-sex education but others, understandably, feel the opposite, i'd go on which you and your dd prefer

Every academic success needs to work hard for, for such an amazing result the children have to work for it. This was my point answering the question about academic story in LU. Speaking for a girl who has a Westminster King scholar offer who goes to LU. And in LU its possible to have it all.

My apologies. I thought you were commenting on the academic story at SPGS. Obviously I can't comment on LU as I don't have a child there.

I agree with @MrsEverdeen that hopefully it is clear that both schools are producing happy, thriving children who have plenty of opportunities both to achieve well and do things they enjoy.

Thank you for a very wholesome, practical and first hand post on Latymer that helped us decide on Latymer for our child as well.