A-level subject choices and combinations that give preference

[winterrabbit]

DS1 is currently deciding which A-levels to study next year. I've read that schools/colleges give preference to certain subject combinations and that you're more likely to get accepted if you pick one of the preferred combinations. Does anyone know if this is right and, if so, what the subject combinations usually are? DS will probably do French, Economics and one other.

Do you mean colleges as in sixth form destinations? Or as in universities?

If the former, then it's only an issue if there is a combo they cannot accommodate due to subject clashes (possible if one is a less-chosen subject). So you need to check that with the school.

If you mean as possible uni subjects, not really. Obviously if you don't take A level English lit then you won't get accepted to study eng lit at uni (ditto for biology, or history, or German, or many other subjects)- but then presumably that doesn't interest you (or you would have taken the A level).

If he is interested in economics at uni tho, he should take maths A level and maybe consider further maths. If econ is just a general interest and he wants to study French at uni (yay!) or some other subject that has no specific A level subject requirements then happy days.

Thanks Clary. Yes, I meant at sixth form not uni. Yep, we did think about maths as it's his highest prediction but am a bit wary as I've heard it's a very tough A-level and needs a lot of work to do well and DS is pretty lazy (bright but lazy). He has ADHD so has been a struggle with behaviour thus far. No idea what he'll study at uni but good point to bear in mind.

Ah OK. Acceptance at sixth form is not usually an issue unless a) it is a very competitive sixth form (I gather these exist but have no knowledge really) or b) your GCSE grades are not good enough.

Most schools require 4/5 in eng and maths and then 6 or 7 in chosen A level subjects. So if a student wanted to do biology but got a 4 at GCSE, school might suggest another subject. But I have never heard of a post-16 destination giving priority to students who chose specific subjects for A level (except as I said, if there is a subject clash issue - but then I would hope they would discuss and suggest alternatives).

Thanks Clary. I have heard of this happening at highly competitive and oversubscribed sixth forms in London and only anecdotally. Can't see anything in any admissions policy. Any other tips on what might go with French and Economics?

Is that the sort of school you are applying to? As I say, I don't have much knowledge of that. But as I say, never heard of it for regular state comps.

Other subjects - I mean maths is a good one with economics; another MFL maybe? or Eng lit would be good for essay writing, ditto history or geography. Or a new subject like gov/pol or sociology? What is he interested in? If nothing seems obvious then maths is deffo a good shout. Always good to have a maths A level.

History, English, Maths, Politics.

No, just applying to the school he is currently at which is good but I wouldn't say highly competitive to get in.

He is good at the 3 sciences, maths and french. I do think he has aptitude for English but not sure it will come through in his result. He did Geography instead of History which was a big mistake as he finds Geography boring and it's his worse grade so far. Think he would've loved History but we were told it's a lot of work and Geography easier to do well in. He's interested in Sociology but worried about him taking on two new subjects he hasn't studied before (sociology and economics). Seems risky. Secondary school has been a rough ride for him so really looking to stabilise him and consolidate his learning.

Certain combinations may only be offered at particular schools and colleges due to timetabling constraints. My DS originally wanted to do 4 A levels but as he was the only one in the school that wanted to do those specific subjects and 2 of them were timetabled to happen at the same time it just wasn't possible. It's common to be asked to pick one subject from each of a number of blocks and obviously most schools will try to plan their timetable in such a way that popular combinations of subjects can be taken. At my DC's school they will try to jig things around to facilitate more unusual choices as much as possible but of course they can't disrupt a large number of pupils to accomodate one person's preference. Likewise if very few pupils choose a given subject it may not run.
If your DS has any idea what he wants to do after school it would be worth looking into what the common combinations are for students taking that type of course. There seems to be more flexibility on subjects these days than when I was at school but there are still popular combinations for some degrees and if a lot of pupils want to do the same 3 subjects then it makes it logistically easier for schools to offer that. So I would suspect that a pupil is more likely to be able to study the subjects that they want if they choose a popular combination rather than it being that schools actually have a preference for pupils interested in particular subjects.

Ah, thanks, I think that must be the scenario I've heard of.

What sort of grade is he expecting in maths? Does he enjoy it? It's true that A level is harder than GCSE but if they're good at maths it can be less work, especially at exam time. DD does her homework and some past papers as revision and that's it, whereas other subjects needed weeks of work leading up to exams to get the same grade.

(Disclaimer - she hasn't finished Y13 yet but did well at GCSE and AS.)

I think they do have to be pretty good at maths though - I know a lot of DC with 6/7 at GCSE do struggle at A level.

Yeh I agree, what is his maths PG. For context, ds2 got an 8 and then a hard-won B at A level.

Someone in his group got a 6 and they really struggled.

Maths, French and econ would open up interesting joint hons in places like bath tho

I doubt they are less likely to be accepted if they pick an unusual combination, but they are more likely to be told "sorry, we can't timetable those subjects so you can take them all; can you change one of them". Schools will vary on how they do things - some may have pre-determined option blocks and you're safe as long as the ones you pick don't clash; others (particularly smaller ones) may try and timetable to fit the choices of those who apply. Some might have pre-determined option blocks but be open to moving things if it fits better. DD's school are running two small groups in one subject purely because it was the only way to satisfy everyone's options. Big sixth form colleges are usually okay for virtually any combination, as lots of subjects will have multiple groups.

Economics is unlikely to clash with anything it is commonly taken with (eg maths). French could be taken with anything, so it could be pot luck there - but it may be small numbers, in which case it may be that they can put it in a block to fit those wanting to take it. Some combinations are so common that they're pretty much guaranteed to be timetabled at different times (eg maths, physics, chemistry and biology are likely to be in different blocks - with further maths probably in the same one as biology - which means the scientists are all okay unless they want to do biology and further maths). If the school is big enough to have multiple groups for some subjects, they can put those groups in different blocks, which opens up more possible combinations.

Ask the school how they organise things, and whether they try to facilitate everyone's choices. If they are not always able to, how do they manage that? Would they prioritise French and economics not clashing, if those are the subjects he cares most about? And consider applying for other local options, so that if the school says that French and economics are timetabled at the same time, or that he's the only person wanting to do French so they're not running it, then changing subject is not the only available plan B.

He gets his proper predictions later this month after they have marked his mocks but we think it'll be a 7. Autumn prediction was a 6 but they're expected to jump up at least one grade. Not sure he enjoys Maths but he doesn't really enjoy school at all. I think he definitely finds it easier to study for as it's somehow more finite and he feels proud of himself when he does well. Clary, if your son got a B with an 8 at GCSE, I can't see my son getting more than a C max which isn't great. My nephew is v good at maths but didn't do much work at A-level and only got a C which mean he missed out on his first choice uni to study Economics.

There's another scenario too. The school is aiming to have every class "full", whatever full means to them (it may be 30, 25, 20). If their target class size is 25, and they have 50 students interested, that's fine - they can put on an extra class. But classes that are significantly below capacity are a financial burden.

This means, if you're lucky, your child's combination of choices will help the school to fill excess spaces. This is obviously difficult to predict. In my experiences courses such as music, art and languages fill up less quickly than maths and sciences, but it depends on the school, e.g. our local grammar has three full classes of 30 doing Further Maths, but our outstanding local comp only has one class of 10 students doing Further Maths. (Fwiw, I know which one I'd rather be in and it wouldn't be a class of 30!).

In that case I would avoid maths as it's a right old slog if it doesn't come 'naturally' (for want of a better word). It's also maybe more difficult to stay optimistic than in some subjects, as it's the concepts themselves which can seem impenetrable, whereas in humanities and social sciences the concepts are maybe easier to grasp but there are other skills at play like remembering more stuff, appraising evidence, constructing arguments, writing well etc.

I haven't explained that very well - I don't mean that maths is harder, but that the nature of the difficulty is maybe trickier to manage and cope with iykwim. Plus it all builds on previous work, so you can be pretty screwed if you're not good at algebra or calculus for example. Whereas in other subjects maybe if you were finding coastal erosion / electromagnets / fiscal policy / microbiology / music composition / making pastry / unseen poetry etc difficult, that wouldn't necessarily impact on how well you did across other topics in the same A level.

How does he feel about English? That might work well, or as others have suggested, politics or sociology go well with economics. Or psychology? I realise those would all be new. DS couldn't choose so was allowed to start four and then pick. He dropped chemistry like a hot brick before the first half term. Could your DS do French, economics and start two more new subjects and then drop his least favourite at October half term?

Some sixth forms do have oversubscription for certain subjects and may only want to take on the children with the best chance of success at A Level.
Maths, the sciences, economics and psychology as some of the most popular at our school and you have to do better at GCSE to win a place to study these. Outside applicants coming from other schools for these subjects are asked to sit an assessment.

On the other hand, if you want to study a MFL I expect they will be delighted to have you as numbers are generally low. Always assuming they have a teacher, and enough students to make the course viable.

My DD took French in a class of two btw! It was going to be one (they were still going to run it) until DD switched to French a few days in.

(Luckily the other student was a friend of hers; she says the class of 2, while hard work, meant her spoken French was sooo much better).

I don't know how common this is tbh, but a MFL class any bigger than about 5 in a sixth form of 100-150 is a cause for celebration tbh (MFL specialist here).

Has he sought any advice from school?
As a general rule, I think the advice from my DC's teachers would be to work back from what degree you want to do. There may be specific subject requirements eg my boys both needed maths and physics for engineering degrees come what may, but if not then it's often sensible to do the subjects you're likely to do best in. For example, my DS's friend is now doing law at a pretty prestigious University and did a fairly esoteric mix of subjects - they seemed to be far more bothered that he got A stars than what they were actually in.
Maths is a subject which does leave a lot of options open but If he doesn't have a real commitment to it I would be a bit wary. Both my boys got 7s at GCSE but found it extremely challenging at A level. Whilst it is without doubt a good A level to have that does only really apply if you can do reasonably well in it. I would think a high grade in another subject would be more beneficial than a mediocre one in maths.
Obviously if he is unsure about longer term plans it makes things more difficult, so maybe now is the time to take some careers advice which may make A level choices a bit clearer? It would be good if he could ensure that at the very least his A level choices don't close the door on any careers that interest him.

Not yet and he has no clue what he wants to study at uni or if he even wants to go. My focus is to keep him in education for the next 2 years on the hope he grows up a bit. He is bright but has had a very disrupted secondary education with multiple exclusions so missed a lot of learning. I'm grateful he's actually in school and has the prospect of doing ok if not amazingly well.

I completely agree that unis seem to focus more on results than subjects. The daughter of a friend got a place to read Geography at Oxford with A stars in Spanish, Geography and RE. I didn't even realise they accepted RE as a subject and thought Oxford would require more a more solid academic 3rd subject. Maths is also a very popular A-level so he'll be competing with loads of super smart hardworking kids which won't help.

Is an A level route definitely the right one for him? It sounds as though he hasn’t particularly enjoyed academic work thus far or found it easy to focus on so I’m just wondering if he might engage any better with more vocational routes - BTECs or apprenticeship schemes? University is not necessarily right for everyone - and if he doesn’t go at 18 it’s still there as an option in the future.

Is he good at exams? Does his adhd cause issues organising himself for homework? Are essays okay or is it a slog to stay on track?

Have a think about what is required from each alevel in terms of components, as well as his interest in the subject matter. Eg essays, writing up practicals, answering a list of problems.

What plays to his strengths in terms of study style.

He hasn't engaged as much because he has ADHD. He is bright and easily capable of getting good GCSE results and going on to do A-levels. I really think he would regret not doing them if he didn't as it rules out certain options for him.

Obviously if you don't take A level English lit then you won't get accepted to study eng lit at uni (ditto for biology, or history, or German)

I'm sure Clary knows this, as a language teacher, but some languages (including German) can be taken at some unis without the relevant A-level, especially in combination with another subject. One of mine is doing their A-level language plus beginner's German, the other taking beginner's Italian plus English.

Exactly Jay. His organisation and motivation are terrible. The only way he revises are with tutors at home which I arrange and pay for. He seems to be doing ok with that and will hopefully get a strong pass in everything with 6 in English and at least 7 in Maths and French. In the 3 sciences he got 5s in the last assessments (using past papers) with no revision.