How to survive 90 minute lessons?!!

[SuperSue77]

My son is year 7 at a large mainstream state school. He is diagnosed ASD and ADHD (no EHCP) and school have been really supportive and he is on their SEN/inclusion register.

I worry that he is close to EBSA and it is a struggle to get him to school, he begs us not to make him go, but when there he is doing quite well. Home schooling is not an option so we’re trying to do everything we can to help him feel able to attend. One issue for him is that their lessons are 90 minutes long and this is just too long for him. He can ask for a movement break, but doesn’t want to draw attention to himself by asking. Has anyone any ideas how school/teachers/my son can make this more manageable for him?

I’ve mentioned it to senior staff, but not got very far because I’m not sure what I can really expect them to do for him. My thoughts are that teachers could ask him to run an errand for them half way through the lesson, but they can hardly do that every lesson and it would draw attention to him.

Has anyone any suggestions or ideas?

Would he feel more comfortable using a code phrase? Eg asking to go to the loo, to get a drink of water or to get a new pen from his locker. Or a nonverbal signal, like putting a bright keyring on his desk. If he doesn't want to leave his desk would a fidget toy help?

An you speak to the senco? They might give him an exit card that he can simply use without having to ask and get a 5 minute break.

All of those things would still be noticeable to the rest of the class.

90 minutes really isn't that long to stay in the same room, as the lessons will definitely be broken into separate sections.

Perhaps these could be more clearly indicated to him, with timers to make chunks more manageable or checklists showing progress with the plan, and movement within the classroom built in for him, to collect things or hand things out.

What does EBSA stand for?

I would definitely ask for a meeting with the SENCO in the new year- they may be able to suggest strategies that work for other students.

I agree 90 minutes is probably too long for KS3, but it's obviously unlikely the school will change this.

I understand it's very easy for me to say this, but harder for me to do it- but really he does need to get more confident in asking for/taking his movement break. It's very likely that other students will get used to this, and stop noticing after a little while. How does he currently ask for the break? Is there a more subtle way he could ask e.g. a card on the desk?

Could an alternative be "time in", where he stays in the classroom/his seat, but effectively has a rest break from the lesson? Or does he need physical movement e.g. getting up and walking around?

Are there any activities that can be done sitting at his desk that would help?

Ultimately, I do think part of the answer is, if possible, to build his confidence in asking for and using accommodations. It's likely this will benefit him throughout his life, too.

I know this might sound flippant but you may find he gets used to it and even likes it.

My dc are at a school with hour long lessons. I was at a school with 35-40 minute lessons-and sometimes they dragged. I was talking to them once and commented that I thought hour long would be so hard. And they all looked at me amazed and asked how we got anything done in 40 minute lessons. In fact they all thought double lessons (ie 2 hour) which they did in the 6th form and during covid, were so much better, and would have rather done that all the time.
Ds, who also has ASD and ADHD, also felt that way.

This did really surprise me as I thought, especially ds, would have needed that break much more often, but he said that it allowed him to get distracted, then refocus knowing that he had time to refocus. With shorter lessons he felt it wasn't worth the effort of getting focused. He did have an exit pass, but rarely used it, but the teachers knew that him having a bit of a distracted time in the middle, as long as he didn't distract others, was a good thing. He did two things which helped him, one was having a piece of blue tac in his pocket to fiddle with. It stayed in his pocket, and do no one knew except his close friends. The other thing was he used to doodle on his legs (wore shorts).

They all did say the length took a little getting used to though.

Now obviously that was my ds who probably presents differently to your ds, but I hope that gives you hope for the future. And try the blue tac maybe. Ds liked it because it didn't mark him out in the way a fidget spinner does. And (assuming doodling on his legs isn't an option for your ds) maybe if he has an exercise book for that, if that appeals?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts, advice and reassurance.
My NT daughters have hour long lessons at their secondary and they question how he copes with 90 minute lessons as they feel it would be too much for them - but then I expect they would get used to it.

I did question how ADHD kids coped with 90 minute lessons at the parent evening and a few parents with children already at the school said that it had been introduced following covid to reduce the movement of pupils around the school but that it had worked well and their children preferred it to the 60 minute ones. Also, a woman I know with son there told me that he really liked the longer lessons, but then he isn’t ADHD.

@Postapocalypticcowgirl sorry, EBSA is emotional based school avoidance - it’s the phrase people use rather than school refusal as the children feel physically unable to attend school, rather than it being something they have a choice over and are simply refusing. I think your comment about building his confidence to advocate for himself is important and advice I have received from elsewhere, I just feel it’s too early to expect this from him when he has so much change to cope with at once.

@MargaretThursday thanks for sharing how your children coped and I think the blue tac is an excellent idea. He has a bag full of fidget toys but I think they risk him being teased as they look a bit babyish, but anyone can have a piece of blue tac in their pocket. I really hope he does get used to it, I think it will be easier when he narrows down subjects for GCSE. School have already said they’re happy for him to miss non core subjects and spend time in the inclusion centre doing homework or Sparx maths, but again he is reluctant to do that because of being singled out as different.

I know there’s no point wishing for something that can’t be, but I do wish his school used Chromebooks across their classes. The school all his friends went to does and I feel it would have really benefited him, as would having friends at school - but the wise admissions system we have in this country forced him into a different school, further away, with no one he knows. It is a more SEN friendly school, which is great, but I just wish they used laptops as standard.

@SuperSue77
Has he been tested for laptop use in lessons?

When ds was diagnosed (as a teen) one of the advisories in his report was that he would be tested to see if using a laptop benefitted him. School was happy to do that, and they came back to say that he did need one. We bought him one (quicker than waiting for school funding) and it made a huge difference to his ability and attitude to school.

He did, like your ds, have a bit of a "I'm going to stand out" moment, but found actually he was envied rather than anything else. And he found it so much better, that he soon got over it.
He had quite a funny moment in the first couple of weeks. He was doing a mock (year 10) and went up 4 grades from a 3 to a 7 from the previous mock less than a month ago. The teacher phoned me to say well done but also told me that when praising him, some in his class were moaning that it wasn't fair because he got to use a laptop. Ds turned round to them and said something along the lines of: "I get to use one because I have ASD. Come here and I'll give you a hug and we'll see if you can catch it too."
Apparently not a word was said after that. 🤣

It also means that he uses it in exams (quite a few do) and that's also a bonus because not only does he use it, but he's also in the computer room with fewer people which is also less distracting for him.

Have a chat to your ds, maybe start by asking if anyone else does in his lessons. Ds was year 10 and by that time there were a number using one, so he didn't stand out as much.
I would ask for him to be tested, even if he at first doesn't want to use one. Maybe he could start by using it for homework?

My daughter has a visual processing disorder and dyslexia, she was diagnosed in year 9, which was due to Covid as I saw she was reading slower than her sister who is 4 school years lower, which led to investigations and diagnosis.

DD was recommended to use a laptop (Chromebook) which suited her, and as mentioned above meant her exams were in a smaller room. She also qualified for additional time. He may not feel a Chromebook is setting him apart in a negative way, DD certainly didn’t. She was also allowed her phone in certain classes as school wifi was a bit patchy in certain areas.

Thank you for explaining, and I do appreciate he can't go straight to being confident in terms of advocating for himself straight away. However, my experience with ND students is the ones who aren't worried about standing out, and are willing to use different accommodations, and ask for them tend to manage better in secondary school. I think this comes from a place of not being afraid to be seen as different and general self confidence- I'd try to work towards building his self esteem and lots of talking about difference, and how difference and diversity can be really valuable.

FWIW, my Y7s seem to really like fidget toys like this : https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sensory-Silicone-Pressure-Relieving-Children/dp/B097JVNK13?ref_=Oct_d_obs_d_26894542031_3&pd_rd_w=aEIP0&content-id=amzn1.sym.cbd0388b-8a1d-4821-a358-a206d4c1239e&pf_rd_p=cbd0388b-8a1d-4821-a358-a206d4c1239e&pf_rd_r=6H786NGMJVMPBX92PN60&pd_rd_wg=bxBa7&pd_rd_r=75797663-9f7f-4387-9d15-8b3ab9e82596&pd_rd_i=B097JVNK13&th=1

Some of them can look a bit young, but if anything the issue in class is that they get passed around because everyone wants to try and play with them! If something like that would help a bit, I think it's worth trying?

I'd also ask if teachers could find reasons for him to have movement breaks, e.g. handing out resources etc? If he had a way to signal discretely he was struggling (I know students who use red/amber/green cards on the desk etc), and if he went to red, the teacher sent him on an "errand", would he use something like that?

Do you think the school his friends have gone to would generally be a better fit for him?

Finally, if he's at risk of not attending school at all, have you thought about pursuing an EHCP? If possible, it's better to get something in place before a crisis hits?

How did he manage in primary school? In my school, the afternoon session is 2 hours long without a break. Sometimes we do a long lesson eg in science, sometimes two shorter lessons.

If he is really not confident enough to ask for 5 minutes outside, then it would definitely be worth flagging to the teachers that he needs movement breaks and asking them to facilitate this by using him to hand out and collect in books/glue sticks/whatever.

@MargaretThursday @AuditAngel He has an independent EP report which recommends using a laptop for lessons - he was given one for the last 2 terms of primary for longer pieces of writing and his form teacher was very impressed with how good his writing was as a result. He is allowed his Chromebook at secondary, but no one else in his class uses one (not sure anyone else in the whole 8-form year group does, but I’ll check with the SENCO) and he has mentioned that other pupils have said to
him “you’re the boy who uses a laptop in class”. So he doesn’t tend to use it in lessons other than English but he does homework on a laptop at home. School aren’t geared up for it being submitted electronically so often we have to print it off for him to take in.

I’m hoping he’ll be able to do some GCSEs on the laptop when the time comes, also hoping he will be in a small room. He wasn’t allowed the Chromebook for SATS but did sit them in a small classroom with 2 other pupils, each with a 1-2-1 and the school dog! He aced the tests, got 100% in all the maths papers and greater depth in the reading/spag ones, so that set up worked well for him.

Longer lessons are usually timetabled for practical subjects such as PE, science and DT. If he gets into the habit of opting out, he'll fall behind. GCSE exams are lengthy. He'll need help to develop coping strategies to remain in the room rather than leaving.

Movement breaks are a reasonable adjustment for GCSE exams.

@SuperSue77
In order for him to do GCSEs on the laptop, I think they have to show it's their normal working, so it's a good idea to push for him to try it.

"You're the boy who uses a laptop" isn't necessarily a negative thing. It's an identification, although I can see how he might feel it is negative.
Can you give him a couple of pat answers for if people say that? "I'm allowed to use it because the doctor said it was better?" or "yes, I'm lucky" might be even better.

My dd2 was born without her hand and, even at 20yo if it isn't the first thing people ask about when they first meet her, it'll be in the top five. So she had to have pat answers to give people. "I was born like that" is her normal one, but she's played with "bitten off by a shark", "I left it behind today" and similar comments. It doesn't have to be true, just something to finish the discussion if she wants to.
You can also get him to look at the comment as a good way of starting a discussion. My dd1, who's very shy, once commented that dd2 always had a topic of conversation people would respond to, which made it easier for her to make friends as once they'd exhausted the topic of her little arm, it was easier to move onto other subjects.

Similar issue here OP and the whole class takes a break to get water, stretch legs etc.

Thanks @Postapocalypticcowgirl he has a fidget toy like the ones you suggest, so I’ll suggest he takes one of those in, and also find him some blue tac! I agree that accepting and valuing his neurodiversity is the way to get the most from life and to be fulfilled and happy - we are lucky to have been assigned a peripatetic music teacher who is very ND affirming and I am
hoping he will provide a positive role model to encourage this.

He used to use green/red cards in primary, but they’re not familiar with them in his secondary, though I think his teachers are beginning to read his physical signs and offer for him to go to the inclusion centre when getting dysregulated. He has also asked to go on one or two occasions so hopefully he will manage this more - though hoping he will feel the need less often!

I’m really torn as to whether his friends’ school would have been a better fit or not. It’s closer to us and the Chromebook usage would have been fantastic for him. There are a couple of things that wouldn’t have been so good and I have also heard of at least 2 boys struggling to cope there, the parents of one was actually looking into moving him to my son’s school, but have decided against it now and they have de-registered him to do self-funded online school from now on. We are still on the waiting list and if offered a place I really wouldn’t know what to do. He has never said he wants to go to that school and his upset over his friends is that they “don’t go to his school” rather than him not being able to go to theirs! I think he can see the positives of his school, there are just so many things that he finds hard about school in general.

We applied for an EHCP, submitted with independent EP and SaLT reports stating he would benefit from one and his primary support (though their view was that he needed one for secondary not primary) so LEA refused and I was too busy appealing for a place at his friends’ secondary (which we lost) to have the mental and emotional energy to appeal the refusal to assess. I’ve come to the conclusion that the time and energy needed to fight for an EHCP at every step of the way is better invested in working with his school to get him the support he needs now. If an EHCP is to be pursued I think I’d let school do it, with my support, as I’d need them on side anyway and they are proactive. I’m very hands on and communicative with school and his teachers which I know is not usual for secondary and I’ve been advised by some to step back and leave it to school and to encourage him to self-advocate - but I’m finding my communication with school is really helping so I’m going to continue with it for now. (That advice was from a woman whose has written a book about supporting NT children in mainstream secondary based on her own experience- but she lives in a different part of the country and her child has now left school and she doesn’t really know my situation or our school, so it’s not someone involved in our situation who has advised this).

He was well known in primary and his teachers made quite a few adjustments for him. He was allowed to get up and leave the classroom when he needed to and would often just sit outside the classroom for a bit and then come back in. He felt comfortable doing this because he was familiar with his classmates as he’d been with most of them since reception. In year 5 the teacher used a reward system whereby he could chose an activity to do towards the end of the day and as they had a TA in the classroom (who supported his best friend who did have an EHCP) she could take him and a friend out for a kick about, so these type of interventions enabled him to cope.

He copes better with subjects he enjoys like maths, and it helps that it’s more practical, so he’ll spend a lot of the lesson answering questions, and being good at maths he tends to storm through the questions and whilst he is exhausted by the end of the lesson, he has been engaged and occupied - NT kids are often good at focusing for long periods on topics they enjoy. It’s the subjects he has less interest in that he struggles with, so most of these he can drop for GCSE. He has time to build up the stamina for the GCSE exams and as @noblegiraffe says he should get movement breaks during those, as he did for his SATS. He wasn’t allowed extra time, but they did stop the clock to allow him to move about, then restarted it when he sat down again.

@MargaretThursday I will definitely push the laptop thing harder as he moves up the school, but at the moment I have been in touch with the school so much about other things that I don’t want to overload them with too much! We’ve just had our request to “flexi-school” agreed so he’ll spend one day a week at home and 4 in school, so they have been really accommodating, so I want a few more things like this to bed-in before I push for the Chromebook being better accommodated in class.

It sounds like most of what he needs is actually in place for him, but he just won't use it. I'd say that is where you should focus your efforts.

Could the inclusion hub do a short intervention with him to help him understand that it's OK to need different things to others and build up his confidence to access his adjustments? Perhaps they could include some work with a couple of others in his class who could then be supportive.

I am surprised that the teachers don't incorporate a movement break for everyone in a 90min lesson as it is a long time to concentrate and would probably benefit most people in the room. A couple of colleagues of mine have ADHD and so our longer work meetings now always incorporate a pause and I find it so beneficial.

I am surprised that the teachers don't incorporate a movement break for everyone in a 90min lesson

Given how secondary kids are often crammed into classrooms, getting them all to move around would be basically impossible.

But also not all children would benefit from one.

Two of my children would find it detrimental to their concentration levels.

That sounds positive, and hopefully he'll gain some more confidence as time goes on. I wouldn't worry too much about comments like "you're the boy who uses a laptop in class"- it may be a clumsy attempt to make friends!

I would encourage him to keep using the laptop as often as possible- for exams it has to be "the normal way of working" and this needs to apply for each subject he wants to use it for (although that's more of a concern from Y9 onwards).

Hopefully he can find a fidget toy he's comfortable with at school and that will help a bit? I'd suggest a card system to the school if it worked well at primary and it's something he'd be willing to use. Just because it's not their current system doesn't mean they can't try it!

FWIW, I totally get how you feel with the EHCP, but I think nearly all of them have to be appealed now. I would at least mention it to the school if you would like them to apply for one- most schools won't suggest it unless prompted, until things are absolutely in crisis.

Having an EHCP will likely enable him to access more support and can have benefits down the line (e.g. post 16). It can also offer him a bit of protection should things ever reach a crisis (e.g. he can't attend school/can't attend this school anymore). Unfortunately, they take so long to get, that if you wait until crisis to apply, then it will likely be too late.

I fully understand why you might not feel you want to go down that road again at the moment, but it is worth thinking about.