Are CLSG/SHHS worth the fees vs Camden/Parli?

[Stealthtoast]

Bright DD is applying to the schools above. She's one of those that people say will do fine anywhere but you're not sure whether they are just saying that as she's articulate/ to reassure us, or whether it's actually true!
If you made this choice, what did you decide and why?

I think the choice is pretty easy if you go and see these schools and imagine you were a student there. One of my DDs is in one of the indies you mentioned and the other one had CSG as an option. If your DD is brilliant she’d prob get the same grades in CSG as in either of the indies. The experience will be quite different in terms of extra-curricular (sorts, clubs and general feel).

Thanks - we have been to see them and the choice isn't easy, hence the post! It's such a lot of money, which could pay for many extra curricular things plus later university/ house deposit

It's a tough choice as top state schools are great. But if you get a place at CLSG and are happy to pay for excellence then it's a no-brainer IMO and totally worth it.

I have no experience of the state schools mentioned, but bear in mind that SHHS has recently lost their head to NLCS. City has had a huge issue over recent years with staff turn (since the current head joined) my DD had 3 teachers for one subject in their GCSE year as an example which would be concern even if you were not paying…. The current head also seemed to invite some strange choices of speakers to address the girls (The former Duchess of York being one such example ) and I wouldn’t say that the Head really understood the ethos of the school upon joining which may explain the staff turn issues. The music department in particular was decimated, which was a travesty given that it used to be a huge draw. There is also a large culture of tuition outside of school particularly in maths and science, and there is no way my DD would have achieved her grades in those subjects in particular without external help. City class sizes in the early years are 25 for most subjects so also consider that. The issue of the school being ‘Uber woke’ was an issue and some girls were frustrated about the lack of balanced discussions that could take place in certain classes where debating is essential.

On the upside, most parents are working parents and it is very diverse. My DD left for 6th form and was much happier elsewhere (there is a sizeable number who move for 6th form) Your DD does need to be resilient though, the atmosphere is very intense.

That all sounds pretty poor... this thread led me to another old one with similar comments from @Metgala and also some different views. I hadn't really realised tutoring was a widespread thing at CLSG - if you need to tutor whatever it's hard to justify paying fees.

We certainly don't tutor and I wouldn't think it's widespread at City.

For starters, there's plenty of support within the school if the girls need help: maths clinic, coaching, or older students 'tutor' a younger year - organised by the school.

Our girls started after the new head joined (love her) so the above post and other older threads might not reflect the current state?

Also, I wouldn't characterise the school as having 'high staff turnover'. I haven't come across it in the last 5 years my DDs have been there.

OP, in the comps you mention there will be a huge variety of ability. The good comps need to generate value add, and the most value would be to bring up 50%. from C to B, say, not your DD from A to A*. In the selective indies it’d be everybody G your DD level already. There will be no way for her to fall behind, no clackers, focused parents, more money the schools can invest into teaching (roughly x3 times more). I’m not sure how much you can do after school. My DD starts at 7.30- 7.45 most mornings and most time doesn’t get back until 5 or 6pm. She then does homework 1.5-2hrs daily and music practise. There’s no chance I could fit anything else in, there’s just no time.

no experience of Parli but when I asked a Y11 girl on a tour of CSG which school they play again in fixtures (not realising it’s not a done thing there) she looked at me blankly and said they once played rounders in Y7.

Friend’s DD just finished GCSEs at CLSG and I can say for certain that she and all her friends weren’t tutored. Where would they find the time? They are managed very closely by the school to try and keep everyone getting the all-important 7-9 grades and the school nags the living hell out of any girl they’re worried won’t make the grade to get them to work harder pre-GCSE’s, but that’s all. I haven’t heard ever heard the girls talk about staff turnover. Their friends at SHHS have the same experience pretty much.

@InterrudelyUpted with the greatest respect you are not a current parent and neither are you the parent of a girl who has ever attended City so how can you possibly know who is being tutored? Your friends daughter might not be (and she might not have reached ys10/11 when it ramps up) but their friends may well be. A bit like ‘we never tutored for the 11+’ it goes on. Tutors are available both physically and online and as the girls day finishes relatively early and with no weekend classes it is no problem with time to fit it in. Trust me, I’d rather have not been paying for additional help, but what is a parent supposed to do? I agree the ‘nagging’ exists but nagging a child who doesn’t understand and is receiving no actual help from the teacher but is advised to use their downtime to sort it out with a sixth former is not a resolution. One of my DD’s external tutors had several other girls from the same year on his books, and the girls were quite open about it, hence I know it was not a limited issue.

A read of any of the current Head’s term-time letters will reveal the detail of new starters etc. They are not extra teachers, they are replacing the ones who left. If you were not in a position of experiencing the staff turn in earlier years (very few) you probably wouldn’t realise the marked difference.

The OP asked if certain schools were worth the money vs the local state schools. As an ex-parent my opinion of CLSG is ‘not really’, especially if you might be sacrificing other aspects of family life such as holidays. And definitely not when the fees are then subject to Labour’s proposed VAT. I make no judgement on SHHS as I have never been a parent there, but I know they have just lost their very respected head to NLCS.

I have no axe to grind with city - my DD left with fantastic grades, but they are not the sole work of the school itself and it would be disingenuous to not let the OP know that if she is asking the question about VFM.

Sorry to hear that Metgala's daughter had a bad time at City. As a parent myself just wanted to address a few points:

I don't think the Head invited the Duchess of York. The Duchess of York invited herself as she was patron of Street Child at the time. City girls have raised £200k for Street Child. My daughter said her speech was pretty barking.

Though I have not kept a tally, it is not my impression that there has been an unusually high turnover at City as a result of new head - leavers and joiners seem similar to those at my ds's school. There were a few high profile staff leave last year, but mostly because they went to bigger jobs than they could find internally not because unhappy, e.g. the Head of Maths became Head of Kings College Maths School, Head of Music Deputy Head somewhere, the Head of Drama moved to Westminster. But there are lots of staff that have been there a while and lots of stability at the top (I think the deputy heads have been there a good while for instance) and we are impressed with new head of maths.

My dd has not had tutoring since being at City but I know quite a few do maths and science, I am not sure that this is much different from other competitive private schools? Maths is the most popular A-level at City by far so it might reflect some people taking it who are not that naturally gifted at it? I do get the impression that there is a bit of peer/parental pressure to do maths at City.

The school is woke, I think mostly positively so, but I am sure that there is a bit of stuff that would annoy the more free-speech liberal side of me. But it's in the Barbican and a lot of parents from Islington so would expect it to be somewhat woke? I don't get the impression though that it is uber woke.

As for VFM, I am dubious about the value of private schools over good state schools (I think a lot get good results because they get good kids) though I think they do make a difference and prob partic in subjects like maths where state schools can struggle to get good teachers. I think that the pastoral side can be better at private schools (though obv being at an academic school like City can bring new pressures). So I think whether it is a good choice does prob depend on how much of a sacrifice it entails and whether there are good alternative state options available.

I can provide an anecdote. I’ll be a bit vague so as not to out myself and DD.

DD went to CLSG. She had a friend at Camden. Both she and her friend went on to the same highly regarded uni. Both girls come from well educated families. I think both girls are quite bright. At uni, DD is pupil 1 for her course (top grade in her year group) and has time for multiple outside interests. DD’s friend had to retake year 1 exams due to failing.

I really believe the friend is an intelligent, lovely girl who did not muck about. I can only think that my own DD was better prepared and some of this must have been down to the excellent teaching she received at CLSG. She was also inspired by the mums of school friends who were often high flyers.

For my own DD it was both transformative and foundational. She is still in touch with many old school chums.

I don’t recognise the CLSG that metgala experienced. I never heard of a single girl having outside tutoring. But I am sure it happens. It must happen everywhere to some extent. Some teachers are better than others. Some teachers cluck with your DC, others don’t. That happens every where.

I really liked the new head.